Interview: Eileen Myles

‘People go on these pilgrimages to become ‘other’ in order to become artists. I began other.’

 

Eileen Myles came to New York from Boston in 1974 to be a poet. Their books include For Now, I Must Be Living Twice/new and selected poems, and Chelsea Girls. Pathetic Literature which they edited, will be out for Grove Press in November 2022. Eileen has received a Guggenheim Fellowship and in 2021 was elected a member of the American Academy of Arts & Letters. They live in New York and Marfa, TX. 

I first met Eileen at the Edinburgh Book Festival in 2017. I was working on a queer writing project at the time and a few months after our meeting, Eileen agreed to do a short interview about their then new book Afterglow: A Dog Memoir

Five years after our initial meeting, it was an absolute pleasure to sit down and chat with Eileen about life, writing and their new work. 

In For Now you describe literature as a profound aspect of wasting time, which is what my writing process looks like a lot of the time. I find it difficult to get anything on the page until I have edited it in my head. Do you have a preferred writing ritual, schedule or method?

I do and I don’t. In the past it was more structured: get up, do a little reading, exercise, meditate, begin to write, and that would be the perfect version. That has worked and sometimes, if I’m at an artist colony or a very closed situation, I still do that. For a while, if I was free or found myself actually thinking about writing, I would begin then. My willingness became so tricky that if I saw the horse, I had to jump on it immediately. Lately though, I have returned to something that looks like writing as the first thing possible. It requires a little bit of caffeine, but to really not even allow the morning reading – I’ve gone through structures of getting up quite early and beginning to write before it even seems like I have a consciousness. I find that is really good, because there is actually a lot more there than I would have guessed. I do find that more than anything, consistency is the best thing. No matter when I’m writing, whether it’s first thing or later in the day, what matters is that I do it every day to stay in the world of it. I find breaks are the hardest thing; you have to become that person again.

Do you feel that your poems must be spoken/performed to be understood in the way that you intended? Does that matter or is each person’s interpretation of the words as valid?

No, it doesn’t matter to me. I mean, I think that those of us who love poetry know that you want to get the breath of the poet. If I love somebody’s work, I go out of my way to hear them because I want to put a body and a voice onto the work, but I feel like the work has to exist in both fashions – in all fashions. I think it’s so interesting that a lot of my books are now audiobooks. It’s so much fun to make an audiobook. To take something that you’ve written over a long period of time and then spend three days in the studio with somebody, reading it to them and hearing it in its entirety, it’s such a pleasure. It’s anti time in a way, because when I write a book, I do assemble it as if the person were going to read it straight through, but I know that very few do read that way. The recording is absolutely that, it is a straight through reading of it. I think that the real pleasure is understanding that your writing has become an audio file that can now be unleashed in all kinds of settings all over the world – when somebody I don’t know tells me they have been painting or creating while listening to my work, or travelling cross country while listening to my work, I feel so honoured and so delighted. As postmodern writers and artists we are doing something that’s partial. We are well aware that it is never a total work and it doesn’t fill all the pores. You’re writing in relationship to everything in the room and all the rooms you’ve been in and all the media that exists, and so to realise that your work is received in that way is so wild and fresh. 

Are there any compromises you made that you regret regarding your work? Anything you would have done differently?

I don’t think so. Writing a book is when I have that fear. Right now, I’m writing a book and I’m working on a section, and my hope is that this will be a very big book. 

I have never ‘sold a book’ in advance of writing and yet I feel like just the thought of having the gun of time to my head, in terms of somebody else’s reception and what I would get if they receive it well, that is kind of a compromise. Just today I was thinking, what if I told a publisher – actually, I can’t give you this for another year. 

I mean, what would they do? Would they take away my right to write? 

The work has to be that radical. I’m really against rushing. I write fast though that’s just a hunk of words, but then where do they go? That’s where the whole editing process comes in. I’m very effusive as a writer, but that still doesn’t mean the process is quick in any way. At least three times, I’ve taken ten years on a book. The book I’m working on now, I conceived of it in 2013 and wrote a little bit of it that year, so supposedly nine years have already passed on this book, but I didn’t really start writing it until the pandemic. It’s very glacial, my process, and that seems important. 

Being mixed race, working class and a lesbian there were many spaces I felt othered in when I was growing up. I distinctly remember feeling the class divide at university and trying to change my voice to fit in. I think the answer will be ‘no’, but did you ever feel the need to assimilate in your younger years?

You’re right, no. But I’m sure that I did in certain ways because I’m human, and you always want to get into ‘the club’, whatever it is. I feel like when I learned what people were reading, I began to read that, you know? In lots of settings, even when I began to write, I felt like I knew nothing about it. When I began to write about art, I felt like I knew nothing about art and so I felt I was very much tracing the influences and reading the press releases like, ‘ok now I have to read this.’ I don’t work like that anymore. 

The greatest way I felt my class is that I didn’t know anybody. I came to New York and I didn’t know anybody. What I slowly discovered, especially through girlfriends, is that people had gone to good schools, the same schools. These people were in New York with people they had gone to high school with, so there was a long assurance of them being talented insiders who knew people. The fact of not knowing anybody made me even more of an outsider. If anything, I think I was a little braggy. I think I did the opposite of assimilating; making much out of the fact that I worked in bars, that I was working class. 

People go on these pilgrimages to become ‘other’ in order to become artists and I began other. There was less of a sense that I had to get some dirt on me, I began with the dirt.  

Who are the lesbian writers that interest you?

Renee Gladman, I love her work, I think about it. We don’t see each other very often but I feel that there is a kinship and an excitement about her work. British poet Sophie Robinson is a writer whose work is very important to me. Birhan Keskin’s Y’ol is an amazing book about love and lovers and loss. She’s gigantic for me. Camille Roy’s recent book Honey Mine is really great. Historically, Violette Leduc’s La Batarde is one of my favourite books – but I don’t necessarily think that much about these people being lesbians, it’s more that their work means so much to me.

The term ‘lesbian’ writer brings me onto my next question. Labels. Labels such as gay, black, woman are always attached to a writer unless, of course, you’re a cis man, in which case you’re just ‘a writer’. You’ve previously been described as a Rock & Roll icon and lesbian icon – how do you feel about these labels?

The closer you get to a world that’s your own, the less they apply and exist, but it’s almost like as you get into the ‘larger world,’ they seem to thrive on those. I was called ‘punk poet’ in a review in 2000 and ever since then, I have been a punk poet. I mean, one of my least favourite phrases is ‘bad-ass’ – what does it even mean? We don’t just get queer or lesbian labels, it’s female. Men are not bad-ass, they just are supposed to be rough and strong and rowdy – well at least that’s one of the versions of what they are supposed to be. Labels are a corrective. They are always preceded by this silent utterance of ‘this is not what a lady should be’. I had a poetry collection come out a few years back and the review didn’t mention the work. It just talked about me in terms of culture – they referred to my earliest work as very ‘bad-ass.’ I was in my 60s, with my selected poems, and they were talking about things I had done in my 20s – all they had to say about me was what I looked like. It’s weird though, because labels can also mean that kids who are looking for their ‘kind’ will find us.

I think it is brilliant how you are constantly using your platform online to promote and raise awareness – most recently the dog shelter and East River Park campaigns – do you feel that with having an online presence comes a responsibility, and how do you feel about that? 

Having an online presence is akin to having a reputation or a version of fame. There are writers who are unwilling to be on social media, who regard it as a waste of time or beneath them. I think they are completely right, but for me, I think that those things (social media platforms) came into being at a time when I was getting more attention and it was very interesting to use them as an artist, first. 

I was in New York, I had a new dog who had huge amounts of energy, and we began walking. It was this wonderful experience of documenting, which lead directly to East River Park. Whereas in the past, I had gone to the park specifically to run or meet people for walks, my new dog meant that we were down at the river every single day, going over bridges I had never gone over and really exploring the park and getting to know it. I was using the camera on the phone to take pictures. I’ve always liked taking pictures but never had a way of sharing them and so using Instagram gave me this tool to show what I love and how I love. I’m a very visual writer and so for me it was interesting because it was like a consciousness working through all this different media, and it was really fun to write in pictures for the first time. Then several years later, when I realised this park that I love was endangered and I had these thousands of followers, I thought ‘we can mobilise’ and we created marches for the park. That was really amazing. 

The ways in which a city can be a killing machine of all kinds has become abundantly clear to me now: killing the underclass, killing nature, killing trees, killing animals – anything that can’t be monetised. It’s funny, I think to myself, ok, if I’ve become someone ‘famous’, someone with a lot of followers, I should be able to use that to do something. What’s interesting is, that isn’t always the case. Right up until they were chopping down the trees in the park, no magazines or papers, some of which have asked me to write about their topics, would let me write about mine. It’s been an education, but I still feel good about it. Self-promotion is the exception for me on social media and not the rule and that makes me feel excited about the medium still. 

The flip side of having social media, is the desire to get rid of it, stop it completely. I feel like that would be an anti-studio, a new place to write – a world that doesn’t have those tendrils. I think that’s very exciting and I don’t know when I’m ever going to exercise that option, if ever, but it looms. 

What are you working on at the moment? You mentioned a big project, can you elaborate?

I have an anthology coming out in November called Pathetic Literature which is something I’ve been interested in for a long time – to reimagine the pathetic. There are 105 writers in it and it’s going to be a very exciting book. 

Then I have a novel that I began in 2013 called All My Loves. I am so formed by the people I have been involved with, sexually of course, but I mean little things – like composting! My last girlfriend composted, and I had never thought of doing it, had no interest in it and now, I compost. The whole process became interesting to me. Everybody who I’ve ever been involved with is with me in some way. That idea was the inception of the book, but it’s spread into other topics too. I decided the book would be large, so decided to throw the idea of love, larger – to make it very wide in terms of what love means. I think the book is becoming a kind of cabinet for all sorts of things. The challenge will be to make this piece of furniture something that is accessible, while still being weird. 

 

AMY RIDLER IS  A WRITER AND ENGLISH TEACHER IN EAST LONDON, WHERE SHE RUNS THE LGBT+ SOCIETY. SHE HAS WRITTEN ABOUT HER EXPERIENCES AS AN ‘OUT’ TEACHER, MOST RECENTLY IN A CHAPTER ENTITLED ‘MISS, ARE YOU PART OF LGBT?’ FOR BIG GAY ADVENTURES IN EDUCATION, WHICH WAS PUBLISHED BY ROUTLEDGE IN 2021. SHE HAS WORKED WITH THE QUEER, FEMINIST LIVE ART THEATRE COMPANY CARNESKY PRODUCTIONS AS AN ASSOCIATE ARTIST SINCE 2009 AND CONTINUES TO BE A MEMBER OF THE COMPANY’S ADVISORY BOARD. SHE IS CURRENTLY AN MA CREATIVE WRITING STUDENT AT BIRKBECK.
TWITTER: @AMY_RIDLER

Photo by Eileen Myles.

The Danger Is Still Present In Your Time by Robyn Jefferson

They used the same picture of Meggie in all the newspapers, back in 1997 when she first went missing.

It was a photo her dad took on the last holiday they’d had as a family, four nights in a Pembrokeshire caravan the summer before Meggie disappeared. They cropped the version they put in the papers so only a hint of the backdrop can be seen: a pebble beach framed by rolling hills, a few centimetres of overcast sky encircling Meggie’s head like a halo. Meggie stands alone in the centre of the frame. She’s wearing a crop top with spaghetti straps, the pale crescent of her arms and throat on display, so it must have been warm out despite the clouds. That expanse of soft white flesh makes the picture difficult to look at, Lauren thinks. Meggie seems delicate, unfinished, like a lump of dough yet to be shaped by careful hands into something a little more defined, a little surer of itself and its purpose. 

Lauren thinks about this picture a lot. It’s hard not to; she sees it almost every Sunday. It’s framed on the wall in the Queens Head where her mum tends the bar, above a long-since-faded police appeal for information. Meggie’s face fascinates her. Something about how she’s not smiling nor frowning, but looks like she could be on the cusp of either, as if the camera caught her in the very last second of ambiguity. 

The old men in their regular seats raise a glass to her on occasion when the night is winding down and the Doom Bar has softened the steel around their hearts. They look at Meggie, who is looking at nothing, and Lauren looks at them. Is it Meggie they mourn for, she wants to ask, or is it the myriad small losses of their own lives Meggie makes them grieve – the daughters who don’t speak to them anymore, the long-ago girlfriends and ex-wives who got away? 

One time, maybe a year ago, Jack Holcomb had a few drinks too many and said it must’ve been local immigrants that took her, trafficked her into one of their rings, pretty little blonde girl like that. He’d said it loud so the whole pub could hear him, but his eyes were narrowed across the bar at Anwar’s dad. The atmosphere between them was tense and ugly until Rob, the owner, stepped in. After Jack went home the rest of the men filled his space with restless murmurs: well, you can’t really blame him, can you, didn’t his daughter run into some trouble with boys, away in the city for college? The whole time Lauren kept looking at the picture on the wall. Sometimes she thought it might be nice to join Meggie there, in that walled-off moment of eternal pause, that strange nowhere-place.

It’s not like any of them even knew Meggie, not really, but when someone disappears from a community as small as theirs, it leaves a mark. Lauren was only five when Meggie vanished and she doesn’t know anyone her age who didn’t grow up shouldering the weight of it. It made itself felt, first in their parents’ pinched worry, then in the taunting words of uncles and older siblings – you’d best be home before dark, or whatever took Meggie James will take you too – and finally, when they reached their teens, in the stories they made up at sleepovers. Thrilled whispers: Meggie was stolen by a serial killer who skinned his victims and dissolved their bodies in acid, and if you got into the bathtub and chanted her name three times—

        It’s silly, Lauren thinks. She thought it then, and she thinks it now that she’s almost sixteen, the same age Meggie was when she disappeared. She feels like she’s on the cusp of something; a new kind of maturity, perhaps, or some sudden rush of understanding as to the mysteries nested like Russian dolls inside the notion of becoming a woman. Maybe boys will start liking her, start looking at her the way they’ve been looking at some of her friends since Year Eight. Maybe she’ll start liking them. Maybe Meggie’s expression in the picture on the wall in the Queens Head will become a cipher she can solve, as if the commonality of their newly shared age will shift them sideways onto the same transcendental plane. It’s the latest iteration of the same private wish Lauren’s held onto ever since childhood, since she first heard Meggie’s name invoked as a cautionary tale: to see what Meggie saw, to know her like none of the men drinking a pint on a solemn Sunday evening ever could, ever will.

So when Amy suggests the ouija board, Lauren shelves her disdain for urban legend and goes along with it. The tenth anniversary of the disappearance came and went a couple of months ago, still no leads, and the renewed national interest still has all the Year Elevens feeling giddy, hopped up on seeing their state comprehensive on the nine o’clock news. Energy like that needs an outlet, Lauren supposes, and there are surely worse kinds than this – a gaggle of school-uniformed girls sitting cross-legged in Amy’s attic on a Friday after school, their attention focused on the fussily ornate wooden board that Amy places reverently down on the ground between them. Amy, Lauren, Feyi, Alana, Chanel, arranged alphabetically by surname in a subconscious holdover from the beginning of secondary school. They’re in a circle, close enough to smell each other’s pubescent sweat and bubblegum-flavoured lipgloss, knees brushing lightly on every exhale.

‘Like this, yeah?’ Amy puts a finger on the planchette. The board belongs to her mum. Linda’s a hairdresser but she’s into tarot and reiki and stuff like that on the side, fancies herself a mystic. Some people in the village don’t like her because she says she can see patches of purple energy in the air that she thinks are the ghosts of dead people. She’d freak out if she knew what they were up to, Amy said, which is why they’re in the attic.

‘Okay.’ Chanel raises an eyebrow. ‘Who’s going to ask the questions?’

‘I will.’ Amy is bossy, but no one complains, so she sits up a little straighter, slides her eyes shut in a display of ceremonious grandeur. Everyone else joins their finger to hers.

‘Alright,’ Amy begins. ‘We want to talk to Meggie James. Meggie, are you there? Can you hear us?’

A nervous giggle. Amy opens her eyes and narrows them at the offender. ‘Feyi, shut up or this won’t work.’

‘It’s not going to work anyway,’ Alana says, then raises her hands placatingly when Amy turns her glare on her. ‘Sorry, sorry. I’m taking it seriously, I promise.’

‘Let’s try again,’ says Lauren, ending the argument before it starts. The role of mediator comes naturally to her. Amy shoots one last offended glance in Alana’s direction then closes her eyes again and sighs loudly.

‘Okay. Can you hear me, Meggie? Move the planchette to yes if you can hear me.’

Nothing happens. Lauren glances around the circle, averting her gaze when Feyi catches her eye and smirks. She doesn’t particularly like this, the way they’ve all reduced Meggie to an afternoon’s entertainment, but she’s excited too, and a little morbidly curious.

Amy shifts in place as if frustrated by the board’s refusal to yield to her obvious authority, her rolled-over skirt riding up another inch. ‘Meggie? We want to talk to you. Are you there?’

Nothing. Lauren is about to suggest they give up, simultaneously relieved and disappointed, when suddenly there’s a jolt beneath her finger and the planchette begins to move smoothly across the board. It travels in a straight line, stopping at the letter I.

‘What the fuck,’ breathes Alana, eyes rapt.

The planchette hovers over the I, jerks away, then returns to it, over and over again; I-I-I-I, a staccato rhythm, like the beating of a heart.

‘I?’ Amy’s expression is victorious, ignoring the uneasy murmurs of the other girls. ‘Is that Meggie? What are you trying to tell us?’

I-I-I-I-I. Amy’s questions go unacknowledged. Lauren feels a cold roiling in the base of her gut. The planchette moves faster until suddenly it changes direction and shoots across the board to the W. It pauses there for an instant and then keeps moving, spelling out a word.

I want? Want what?’ Amy leans in as if she can urge the planchette to keep going from the sheer force of her desire alone, her body a taut line of hungry, thrumming energy, the ends of her long blonde hair skimming the board. As she does, her bare thigh presses up against Lauren’s. A sudden firm line of contact, Amy’s skin soft and yielding and unexpectedly warm – Lauren twitches away on instinct and the planchette, still trapped under her finger, wobbles off to the side.

‘Oh.’ Amy slumps, and looks at Lauren, her brow furrowed. ‘You were pushing it, weren’t you?’

‘What?’ Lauren shakes her head. ‘No, I –’

But Amy’s already pushing herself up and away from the board, her shoulders tight. ‘Whatever,’ she says, and she walks off, slamming the attic door behind her. There’s a moment of silence, then the moody decrescendo of footsteps down the stairs.

‘I didn’t,’ Lauren says, looking around at the other girls. ‘I wasn’t pushing it, I swear.’

Feyi raises her eyebrows but doesn’t comment. ‘I’ll go after her,’ she says instead. She stands, then nudges the ouija board with her foot. ‘And this was stupid, by the way. I know one of you was pushing.’

Feyi leaves. Again the attic door closes, this time with a curt click. Alana glances sidelong at Chanel, her lips tight as if stifling a smile.

‘Was it you?’ Lauren asks.

Alana looks at her, face unreadable, then tosses her glossy black hair over her left shoulder and shrugs. ‘No,’ she says, after another moment’s pause. Lauren isn’t sure if she believes her. She doesn’t think it was Chanel, who’s currently turning the planchette over in her hands, frowning down at it, confused.

It was Alana, probably. What’s the alternative? Lauren thinks about the message – the repeated I like a frustrated grab at personhood – and her stomach turns over. The other possibility, the one that somehow scares her even more, is that Amy had been right; that maybe Lauren, subconsciously, had altered the direction of the planchette’s movement. It doesn’t feel implausible – her body with its unruly growth and traitorous whims barely feels like it belongs to her these days. I WANT fizzes up through her bloodstream like a biological imperative. The secret realm of her desire is vast and monstrous; she is afraid of it, and tries not to let herself dwell there.

Her leg still tingles, not entirely unpleasantly. She rubs it with the heel of her palm, then pulls her skirt down to cover it, but the sensation doesn’t fade.

It’s only a few months later that a woman walking her dog in a patch of woodland near Easton-in-Gordano finds what turns out to be an exposed human femur protruding from a loose pile of twigs and dirt. The police are called in immediately, of course, and a further search unearths the rest of a young girl’s skeleton. She’s identified provisionally by the remnants of clothing found with the body, conclusively by dental records. The task force responsible eleven years ago for investigating Meggie’s disappearance is promptly reassembled.

‘We’ll probably have some answers soon,’ Lauren overhears her mum telling the regulars in the pub. ‘They can tell all sorts from bones these days, can’t they?’

Lauren doesn’t share her mother’s certainty. Meggie’s never been one to relinquish her secrets easily. And as it turns out, she’s right – Meggie’s remains offer up few answers save for the eradication of the theories that hinge on her still being out in the world somewhere, living. The absence of evidence soon gives way to speculation. What was it that had taken Meggie out there to rot? Wilbur from the pub whose son’s a constable says there were nicks on some of Meggie’s bones that could have been made by a knife, but they could just as easily be the results of post-mortem animal predation; there’s no way to know for sure. If they’d found her earlier, perhaps – and then he shrugs expansively and downs his drink, ostentatious theatre for a hungering audience. Leave her alone, Lauren wants to shout. It doesn’t feel right, these rapacious old men picking over Meggie’s bones; she wants to shield her, bury her even deeper beneath the leaves and moss, keep the vulnerable insides of her as private as they were when she was alive.

In the aftermath of the discovery, Lauren feels drawn to the woods behind the school. Pupils aren’t supposed to go there, technically, but no one really watches the fence that separates the trees from the football field, and the council doesn’t do much to maintain it, either, so it isn’t difficult to find a section of sagging chicken wire and to pull herself up and over. She starts going there after class ends on a regular basis, trudging through the undergrowth and keeping herself roughly parallel to the path she’d usually take home, so that she doesn’t alarm her parents by getting back significantly later than usual. If anyone asks, she knows she wouldn’t be able to explain the strange magnetism of the trees, not in a way that makes sense – these aren’t the woods that Meggie was found in – but no one notices her, so no one asks.

A few times, she sits at the base of one of the taller oaks and leans back against its trunk, closing her eyes and trying to make herself as still and silent as a corpse. Then, when she’s as still as she can manage, she sends out questing tendrils from her mind: Where are you, Meggie? What do you want? Will you tell me what happened to you? On one occasion she’s answered by the sharp crack of a twig nearby, as if someone’s foot had come down on it, and for the briefest second she’s convinced that she’s succeeded, that she’s managed to reach through to Meggie somehow across the impenetrable barriers of space and time, and when she opens her eyes the thing that killed her will be standing right there, looking back. Her body thrums with excitement and apprehension. But there’s nothing there when she looks, only her own pale legs sticking out in front of her, the same scuff marks on the toes of her patent school shoes, scabs on her knees as proof of the blood that pulses beneath her skin.

In July, school ends for the summer, and Lauren goes to a party. It’s the day of the regatta down on their stretch of the Avon, so everyone’s outside and half-cut already, shoulders and ears tinged pink from the sun. Lauren and her friends manoeuvre their way through bustling groups of rowdy middle-aged men. A crowd of men can be dangerous, she knows, especially drunk ones, but the girls linking arms grants them a kind of invisible armour that allows them to pass through unscathed. Together, they wander all the way to the back fields out behind the pub. There’s already a large group of kids from school there, girls sitting on the prickly grass eyeing up the shirtless boys passing around sun-warmed six-packs of Natch and Scrumpy Jack. It’s a strange kind of temporal dissonance for Lauren, who used to play in this field with Feyi when they were kids, one of their dads keeping a cursory eye on them from the pub’s back garden. 

When Amy delves into a nearby cooler and comes out with an armful of sweaty ciders, she takes the one that’s offered to her, pops the tab, tries to drink without shuddering the way everyone else seems to have mastered already. 

For the first time, she gets drunk. The setting sun casts long streaks of orange and violet across the sky, and the light makes everyone look beautiful. Alana leans back on her elbows and stretches out her legs, crossing them at the ankle like she learned from The Princess Diaries. She’s kicked off her sandals, and her bare big toe presses lightly against Lauren’s knee. After a minute Lauren begins to feel dizzy, so she lies down on the grass, staring up at the darkening sky. The sound of people talking fades into a comforting buzz. She stirs only when she hears someone say Meggie’s name, the sound of it bringing her back abruptly.

‘– sure, yeah, I heard that’s where they found her body.’

Lauren opens her eyes – when had she closed them? – sits up and looks around for the speaker. A guy, several feet away, talking to a girl. They both look to be around Lauren’s age, maybe a little older.

‘Really?’ the girl says, her tone somewhere between sardonic and aloof. Lauren squints to see her better in the low light. Her mouth is cherubic, her eyes lined in black. 

‘Those woods over there.’ The boy raises his hand and points to a thatch of trees on the horizon. ‘My brother saw –’

‘That’s not true,’ Lauren says, without meaning to. ‘It was further away. Out by the services.’

‘Oh yeah?’ The boy looks unimpressed by her interruption. He stands up straighter, crosses his arms. ‘How do you know?’

‘I just do.’ 

‘You just do,’ the boy repeats. ‘Right.’ He smirks at the girl he’s with, but she’s looking at Lauren, a glimmer of interest on her face. 

‘Do you know a lot about her?’ the girl says. 

Lauren shrugs, uncomfortable and a little embarrassed. ‘Not more than anyone else around here.’ More than this guy, she wants to say, but she manages to keep the words back. She glances around for her friends, looking for a way out of the conversation she’s blundered into, but they aren’t there. They must have wandered off while she was dozing. She feels a brief jolt of panic at being abandoned but then she spots Amy, over by the cooler with Chanel and two boys from their Maths class. 

‘Relax,’ the girl says. Lauren looks back at her; the girl’s gaze is amused, penetrating. ‘Don’t worry. I wasn’t going to, like, interrogate you.’ 

‘No, I –’ 

‘It’s just interesting, isn’t it? Something like that, happening here.’ 

‘I suppose so.’ 

‘This seems like the kind of place where nothing ever fucking happens.’ 

‘It is, mostly. Um – are you not from here, then?’ 

The girl shakes her head. ‘From Leeds. We just moved down, me and my mum.’ 

‘Oh.’ Now that she’s looking for it, Lauren notes the traces of an unfamiliar accent.

‘I’m Nat.’ She grins at Lauren, a rapid flash of dimples and pointy canines. Beside her, the boy scowls, walks off. Nat doesn’t seem to notice. 

‘Lauren.’

‘So did you know her? The girl who died?’

‘No,’ Lauren says. ‘She went missing when I was a kid.’

‘I thought everyone knew everyone, around here.’

‘Well, kind of, but…’ Lauren bites her lip. It dawns on her suddenly that she’s afraid of losing Nat’s interest, of revealing herself to this pretty newcomer with gothy makeup as being just as dull as everyone else, so she blurts out: ‘Me and my friends tried summoning her, a while back. With an ouija board.’ 

Nat raises her eyebrows. ‘For real?’

Lauren can’t tell if Nat’s impressed or if she thinks Lauren’s stupid, just a kid messing around. The latter, probably. Lauren flushes, wishing she could take it back.

‘Did anything happen?’ 

‘Uh…’ Lauren hesitates, shrugs, and says, ‘Yeah. Kind of.’ 

‘Shit,’ Nat says. Her eyes are wide – suitably impressed, Lauren decides – but then she glances to the side and frowns. The boy from earlier is standing nearby with a gang of his mates. He’s staring down at them both with a sneer. ‘Come on,’ Nat says suddenly, turning back to Lauren. ‘Let’s walk.’

‘You want us to go for a walk?’ Lauren repeats. The sky’s gotten properly dark over the last few minutes. ‘Now?’

‘Now,’ Nat says, decisive. She’s already on her feet, extending a hand out in front of her to help Lauren up. 

Lauren nods, then pushes herself up without taking the hand that’s been offered, staggering a little on the uneven ground. Her heart thuds, but she doesn’t want to seem afraid, or uncool, and she’s already gone against her parents’ wishes by drinking, so – ‘Not past the edge of the field, though, okay?’ 

Nat shrugs like she doesn’t care.

They walk across the field towards the trees that line the furthest edge. ‘Sorry,’ Nat says after a moment. ‘I didn’t want to keep sitting there with Jake staring at me.’ She spins around to face the crowd of people they’re walking away from and raises her middle finger, safe under the cover of darkness. 

‘I get it,’ Lauren says.

‘Fuck him. Him and all his douchebag friends. But whatever, tell me more about your ouija board. I love scary stuff like that, you know, like, occult shit.’

‘Oh. I mean, it was probably just my friend messing around. But the thing – the planchette thing – it moved.’ The ground dips suddenly and Lauren stumbles. Nat’s hand steadies her, a warm weight on the back of her arm. Closer to the treeline, they stop, as if in unspoken agreement. 

‘Did it give you a message?’ 

‘Sort of? Like – just words, not a whole sentence or anything.’

‘What did it say?’

Lauren pauses. Remembering it now sends a shiver up her spine. ‘I want,’ she says. Out here in the night, spoken aloud, the words sound like a declaration.

‘I want,’ Nat repeats, hushed. Her eyes are big and dark. ‘Spooky.’ 

‘Yeah,’ Lauren says. The atmosphere between them has changed, somehow, as if they’d let something in by saying the words out loud. Lauren remembers the rumours about Meggie’s ghost, about what would happen if you said her name in the bathtub, and she wonders – what might she summon now, if she looked at this girl and said I want, I want, I want?

‘Wow.’ Nat laughs, low and throaty, and tosses her hair back. ‘Probably your friends messing around. Hey, do you smoke?’ 

‘No.’

‘Do you mind if I do?’

Lauren shakes her head.

Nat rummages around in her pocket, comes out with a cigarette and a cheap plastic lighter. She puts the cigarette in her mouth. Her lips are a deep, dark red in the flickering light of the flame. Lauren watches, mesmerised, as she takes a drag, and exhales a plume of smoke. ‘I know I should quit,’ she says, noticing the direction of Lauren’s gaze. ‘But we all have our vices, right?’

Lauren feels herself blush but she doesn’t avert her gaze. ‘Can I try it?’ she says, emboldened.

‘If you want.’ Nat doesn’t seem surprised, just passes Lauren the cigarette, watching her in the same way Lauren’s friends do when they’ve dared her to do something.

Lauren takes the cigarette. She holds it between her index and middle finger like she’s seen people do, and brings it to her mouth. The filter is slightly damp when she puts it between her lips. The smoke burns her throat but she doesn’t cough, tries to look cool as she blows it out.

‘There. Now I’ve corrupted you.’ Nat’s expression is mischievous. When she takes the cigarette back from Lauren, their fingers brush. Lauren’s breath catches, and in the silence of the night, it’s audible, but Nat doesn’t laugh, only smiles with her lips together and steps closer, smoke coiling around both of their heads like a translucent veil rising to shield them from the rest of the world.

Maybe it’s because they’d just been talking about her, but Lauren finds herself thinking of Meggie, even as she reaches up to take the cigarette again. Did this ever happen for her, the crackle of a flare being lit in the pit of her stomach, her lips closing over the shape of someone else’s mouth on a cigarette? Or, perhaps, a real kiss, her eyes sliding shut, someone’s fingers in her hair? Lauren hopes, fiercely and suddenly, that it did; that before everything ended for her in that acre of shitty woodland she’d had the chance to feel out for herself the shape of the adulthood she’d never reach, sparks in her chest and fireworks lighting up the black space behind her eyelids.

And Lauren also knows, deep down, that Meggie won’t always mean as much to her as she does right now. Within a few short years Lauren will be gone from here, away at university or travelling the world, and she won’t think of Meggie much at all; a fleeting memory now and then, a gentle heart-tug spurred by the shape of someone’s face or the private look in their eye as they turn away. Meggie belongs to a moment that’s passing, that might already be gone, and when Lauren, too, lets go— 

But stars are at their most radiant just before they sputter out, and for now, the moment endures. Lauren looks up, up at the girl who’s watching her and smiling with her chin tilted high like anything might happen, and the face that shines in her head is vivid, bright, alive.

 

Robyn Jefferson is an aspiring novelist in her late twenties. She has a BA in English Literature and an MA in Creative Writing, for which she earned a distinction. She was born and currently lives in Bristol, but grew up in the South of France.

Twy-Yice by Liz Churchill

The funny thing about the night I bump into her is that I’ve got some cracking power ballads going on in my head. Proper wind machine stuff. I’m in an eighties music video. I’m in a shoulder-padded dress. I’m in an air-punching, air-grabbing frenzy when suddenly I spin to face a different camera for an epic key change and some high-stakes drumming. 

I’ve just been kicked out of the pub. It was after last orders, so technically, everyone else was kicked out too, but the barmaid (face like a Brutalist ruin) was especially stern with me, leaned in close and said, “Drink up, love. Yeah?” 

I asked in a how-could-you voice, “Have you never been heartbroken?”

“Get out,” she snarled, her leather trousers creaking and flexing with menace. 

I am now pounding the semi-rural roads of my small market town. I am a wronged and vengeful Shire horse. I have been dumped. I have also decided to eat that dump. Figuratively. The giant, steaming dump he did when he said, “Yeah, I’ve had second thoughts. I’m not really sure we’re that compatible, you know?” Well, joke’s on you mate, because I don’t actually ‘know’. Because I thought we were made for each other and I do not relate to what you are saying. Ha ha ha. 

I start to cry. Oh fuck. No. I remind myself that I am an attractive and majestic equine and he is just a little Shetland pony and not even a cute one. He is a stinky, mangy, evil, dreadful Shetland pony. He kicks all the other Shetland ponies for no reason, and he stamps on baby rabbits. He can’t even move very fast. He struggles to get beyond a trot. He is nothing but a shit canterer – and that is a word I made up because it is very close to sounding obscene. He is not like me who gah-lops. I pronounce gallops gah-lops because I am innovative. I am a shimmering, gorgeous, captivating, intoxicating Shire horse. And I am gah-lop-ping and I am neighing, and I am causing awestruck bystanders to whisper, ‘Steady girl, easy there, girl,’ and I am not Black Beauty because I am massively more original, and I have just walked into Celine Dion.

  

“Oh my God, fuck, shit, merde.” I take her in. 

She is magnificent. She is ethereal. She doesn’t belong here. I mean, what is she actually doing among the faux Tudor houses of Herringsgrove? Is she actually Celine Dion?

“I’m so sorry,” I say. “I thought you were Celine Dion.” 

This is not the right thing to say. She does not speak. Her skin is golden next to a lamppost graffitied with the word ‘Beans’. 

“Umm.” 

Her eyes are glaring. If she had a tail, it would whip me in the face right now. 

“You are even more beautiful than Celine Dion, though.” I give a dazzling smile. 

It works. She speaks at last. 

“You think?” She touches her face and looks up. 

I look up too. There’s nothing to see. Just a moth bathing in the crackling streetlight; I guess it believes it’s found a star. 

I’m still looking up – it seems like the glamorous thing to do. 

“I bet you can sing better than her, too.”

She says, “I can’t hear you. Look at me when you’re speaking.”

I stand to attention and try not to sob. 

“Oh darling, what is it?” she asks.

I just want to melt into her and absorb her possibly phony, Celine-Dion allure. I want to ride the Titanic with her. I’m flying, debatably-fake, Celine-Dion lady, I’m flying. And I’m crying. Again. I wish she would carry me round in a sling and assure me my heart will go on.

She studies me, pulls me to her and says, “Fuck him.”

“I already did,” I wail.

“No, not literally.”

“Oh, right. Sometimes I get confused.” 

“It’s ok,” she says. She takes my face. “You are a wonderful Shire horse.”

I gasp, “How did you know?”

She puts a finger to her lips.

“You really are Celine Dion, aren’t you?”

“Did I make you think twice? …Did I make you think twy-yice?” she sings, with tremendous vibrato as she walks slowly backwards, disappearing into the shadows. 

Something lands on my head. It is the moth, dead. 

Twice, twy-yice? I think huh, karaoke. Amateur. I shake my head. Celine Dion would never slide her words about so sloppily. Probably just some mad, old bat, I think. And I turn on my hoof and gah-lop away into the night.

 

Liz Churchill lives in Birmingham, UK. She has words in VirtualZine, Ellipsis Zine, Janus Literary, STORGY and ‘Unmute’ – a Comma Press Ebook anthology. She was long-longlisted for the Brick Lane Bookshop Short Story Prize 2020. You can find her on Twitter: @LillabetRose

Interview: KASIM ALI

I’m interviewing Kasim Ali the day after his debut novel, Good Intentions, is published. Having just finished reading the book, I’m keen to discuss its wide ranging themes with Kasim. It’s principally a story about first love, from the perspective of Nur, a young British Muslim man, but takes on urgent topics from racism to anxiety to the importance of family and trust.  

We speak via Zoom, where Kasim’s a friendly, energetic and enthusiastic conversationalist. He’s so easy to talk to and generous with his thoughts that we speak for well over our allotted hour – roving beyond the scope of my questions to the gift he bought for himself to celebrate the publication Good Intentions (“I kid you not, the biggest fucking desk I could buy!”) to representation in publishing, contemporary Muslim identity, the way writing is perceived as a career choice in the UK, to his publication day treat (an afternoon off to see the new Batman film).

Published by 4th Estate, Good Intentions is out now. 

***


SD: I want to say straight off how much I enjoyed Good Intentions – it was really thought provoking on a whole range of themes. Could you talk a bit about the book’s evolution?

 

KA: Thank you… I’m so glad you enjoyed it. I had the idea of exploring anti-Blackness in mind for a really long time. The community I come from in Birmingham is very South Asian, majority Pakistani, all Muslim, so I grew up surrounded by people who looked like me. I never felt that alienation that I know a lot of people who are not white specifically do feel when they’re growing up. But [when] I got to secondary school, there was an influx of Somali families – and they were also Muslim, so they went to the mosque with us, prayed with us, partook in Ramadan and Eid – but they were not South Asian, they were Black. And that’s when I started seeing a lot of anti-Black sentiments from my community. And when I was a kid – it’s hard for me to say – but I never really thought anything of it. It just happened around me. [As] a kid, you’re not really questioning a lot. I had this friend, she and I were very close, and one day I was walking her to her bus stop after school. And my mum drove past and I recognized her license plate and I thought Oh shit, she’s seen me with the girl. She’s gonna think we’re dating. So I get home and my mum inevitably asked the question, who was that? So I say she’s my friend, don’t worry about it, we’re just friends. She’s silent for a second, and then – I remember this so vividly – she says You shouldn’t hang out with girls like that. At the time, I was maybe twelve or thirteen, I thought she meant girls outside my family – I’d been told Muslims don’t date. It was only years later, when I was at university retelling the story, a friend said, she was being racist – it’s because she was a Black girl. It destroyed me a little bit to think it was true, but at the same time, it was a sort of epiphany. I started thinking about all the other stuff that people in my community were saying about Black people, and the way we discuss them, talk to them, treat them. So the idea of anti-Blackness in South Asian communities has been on my mind for about ten years. I always thought I would explore it, or at least I thought it should be explored in, like, a really academic way that can look at colonialism and the Empire and trace the narrative of where this is coming from, and what we should be doing. I never thought I was smart enough for something like that, so I was just waiting for somebody a lot smarter than me, more academic than me, to write this kind of book. 

And then two things happened. Number one, I watched Master of None on Netflix, [with Aziz Ansari]… and I got really annoyed, because Netflix is huge. [Ansari is] a huge comedian. And he had an opportunity to portray Muslims as being varied, nuanced, complex. But actually, what he did was portray Muslims as people who don’t really like their religion. [Ansari’s protagonist] spends a lot of time in the first season, you know, drinking alcohol and eating bacon, and he doesn’t really pray, and he has sex with white women. This is the same old stuff that we’ve been fed all this time – that in order to assimilate, you have to abandon your religion and your culture. And that’s just never been true for me. [For] my family, and the people that I surround myself with, we are Muslim and we are British – and those two identities coexist. 

And then I watched The Big Sick [written by Pakistani-American comedian and writer Kumail Ali Nanjiani]. And objectively, it might be a good film, but I was really frustrated with the way that Kumail portrayed his family, and brown women specifically. Why does every interracial relationship have to be a white person plus a non-white person?  I’ve seen interracial relationships of black and brown, or a brown person and an East Asian person, or a black person plus an Asian person – I’ve seen so many of those iterations and they’re so much more interesting to me. 

So in March 2019, I said fuck it, I’m going to write this, and I’m going to write the version of this story that I want to see. So I’m going to write about Muslims who find a space for themselves within Islam. [When] I look back now, I was really grappling with a lot.

SD: What was your ultimate aim in telling the story ‘warts and all’ – with all its aspects of shame and awkwardness and taboo?

KA: Authenticity is something I was striving for, throughout the entire process. It was the thing I felt was missing from Master of None and The Big Sick – they weren’t authentic, to me… they didn’t feel like my kind of story. I wanted to write a book that felt sincere and genuine to the world that I come from, and the life that I’ve lived – messy and complicated. Sometimes, when we talk about representation, we talk about wanting the most positive iteration of representation. But while I understand that there is a need to portray Muslims as being good, wholesome people, that’s not actually what we all are. There are lots of Muslims who are incredibly strong in their faith, living their lives according to Islam, and they’re really happy doing that. [But] there are loads of Muslims like me – I don’t pray, I can’t remember the last time I touched the Quran – you know, I fast and I celebrate Eid, but it’s a balance. It’s true of me right now that I am not a “good Muslim”. So I really wanted to write about a flawed Muslim, someone not the perfect iteration of themselves. And that’s the whole point of the book – while Nur has these good intentions, he’s not perfect. I really wanted to present that idea of a complex Muslim character: you may not agree with the decisions that he makes, but you can appreciate this is what he would do in those moments.

SD: Yes, he’s very believable. Nur has to face some really difficult facts about his own prejudice in the story. I thought your depiction of relationships, especially as they live and breathe through dialogue, was really authentic – your characters come alive on the page. Are any of them based on real people?

 

KA: I’ve never dated a Black girl. That relationship is pure imagination. The other relationships… there’s some wish fulfillment: I [wrote] about the kind of male friendship I wish I’d had – as intimate and vulnerable and open and honest as my female friendships. I wanted to write about male friendship because I find it really interesting, and I think it’s something we don’t often read about. Saara is based on me at university. I was that person who gave big speeches at parties about, like, the Palestine-Israel conflict. People would be like, whoa, it’s 10pm, everyone’s chillin, don’t do this. But that was me. Me and my really good friend, she would talk about feminism, I’d talk about Islam. I’m almost mocking myself… I was so serious [at university]. Saara is very cool, and she knows everyone, and she demands respect and attention wherever she goes… that was not me [laughs]. 

SD: I saw on Twitter recently that you were highlighting the work of non-white male writers – do you worry that male writers of colour are missing out in favour of women at the moment?

KA: It’s an interesting conversation because I also work in publishing. So I’m coming at it from both ends. This is my perspective: there are lots of older white male writers who are doing splendidly, earning lots of money and selling lots of books. But where are the younger male writers? And more specifically, where are those younger male writers who are writing literary fiction in the vein of Sally Rooney, or Candice Carty Williams, Megan Nolan, and so on? And then to drill down even more, where are the young, non-white male writers who are writing in that space? Candice Carty Williams has done incredibly well with Queenie, and deservedly so – but it’s fascinating to me that we don’t have a non-white male equivalent writing in that kind of space. So when I wrote the list for Bad Form, I was coming at it from a selfish perspective, because I was looking at all these [new publications for] 2022 lists, and wondering, why is my book not appearing on this list, and that list? As I was perusing these lists, I realised there’s lots of women – where are the men? But also, non-white men? Do we not exist? At first, [the Bad Form piece] was just an elevation, it was just me wanting to find these writers, and make lists that anybody could access and go and buy their book if it interests them. But now it’s become a broader part of my work – let’s have a discussion; is publishing doing enough to bring those writers in? Clearly, it’s not, but how do you bring those writers in? Who is gatekeeping? 

SD: Talking of Sally Rooney… how do you feel about being described as her male equivalent [in a Times headline in February]?

KA: Terrified! I haven’t processed it. It’s fascinating and terrifying and exciting and joyous… all the emotions! I don’t know – it’s such a big compliment. I’m so glad that the reviews are good. Obviously, you worry as an author that people might not like your work. And I am so grateful for the team I have, the editors and the publicists, for doing all that they’ve done for this book. I’m immensely grateful to be in this position, because I know it doesn’t happen to everybody. 

SD: I’m keen to talk to you about regional representation. As a northerner myself, it was a real pleasure to read a book about urban people that doesn’t even mention London – I don’t think London comes up even once. Was that deliberate?

KA: Absolutely. Here’s the thing. London is not the UK. London is not the UK! It’s as simple as that. When I was writing this, I said, I’m not touching London – not going to go there, not going to talk about it, it’s not going to be one of my characters’ aspiration to move to London. I come from Birmingham and I have family who live in Bradford and Nottingham and Sheffield and Derby and Leicester and Liverpool – all over the place. And it just baffles me: why are we so hyper-focused on London, when there’s so much more happening across the whole country? To be very simplistic about it, it’s just stupid. We’re not all people in London. We exist all across the country. I know what it feels like to be from Birmingham… people always talk about how Birmingham is like, the shittest city in England, with the worst accent. I’m like, Have you ever been to Birmingham? It’s filled with so much beauty and art and creative talent, and there’s so many interesting things happening there all the time. So when I was writing, my attitude was very much fuck London, as a place of importance. 

SD: Right on! Being from Liverpool, I really relate. Can we talk about mental illness? I think the book contributes in a really positive way to the cultural conversation about mental health. It was really interesting to read about a central male protagonist with mental health issues, because we don’t read so much about male mental health. Was it important to you to break down some of those barriers? 

KA: Yeah, a hundred percent. When I wrote the book, I actually worked for an independent publisher, Trigger, who publish mental health non-fiction, so I learned a lot about mental health there. I’ve dealt with stress and anxiety and a little bit of depression, nothing to the level of Nur, but it’s been a factor in my life. And as I’ve learned about it, as I’ve grown up and learned the language in which to talk about my own mental health, I realised that there are many people in my family, both men and women, who have gone through the same things, but they don’t talk about it. So I wanted to talk about it from a South Asian perspective, but also from a male perspective. It was really important to me to have specifically a South Asian man talk about this thing that affects so many people – so many people, I think nearly everyone in the whole world – and yet, bizarrely, we just don’t want to talk about it.  

SD: On the question of selfhood in the 21st century: one thing I took from the book is how much more complicated it can be for the children of immigrants – this dual identity. To what extent do you think Nur’s experiences is universal, within the male Muslim context? 

KA: He does have a universal experience in terms of parents, and their expectations. Specifically for South Asians. When I talk to white British friends of mine, their parents are quite relaxed – they’re involved in their children’s lives, and they care about their children, but they’re a little bit detached. When I talk to my non-white friends who are children of immigrants, their parents are intimate, close, they’re asking questions all the time… some of my friends are 28, 29, and still live at home with their parents because they haven’t got married yet. So it’s interesting to see that divide. It’s very specific to immigrant experience. There’s a point where Nur is talking about his dad: the fact that his dad came over to England when he was just a kid, and he didn’t know the language – and how hard it is for [Nur] to relate to that. There’s that sense of owing something to the people who came before you.. that you should be grateful, and you owe them your whole life. It messes with your mind, because quite often you’re thinking about the decisions you’re making in your life not as your decisions but as their decisions. [But] I do think people who don’t come from Nur’s background, whether they are white British, or different kinds of non-white person, I think they can relate to him. Because we’ve all had those conversations with our parents, we’ve all been in situations where we’re hiding something from them, or disappointing them. It’s interesting, because [when] I wrote this I was writing it just for myself. But in reading it back, I’m like, this book is kind of for everyone, everyone can see something in it that they can relate to. 

SD: What’s your next book about?

KA: I actually wrote book two before we sold book one, which is such a great thing that I did for myself, because now I don’t need to think about writing it! It’s about friendship. I wanted specifically to write about the breakup of a friendship and how that can really impact your life. I think that friendships are really, really important. I often feel we give romantic breakups this huge space in society and culture. We’re constantly talking about them, and every song is about love and breaking up with the person you love, and all that kind of stuff. When I’ve been through a friendship breakup, it’s kind of devastated me and broken me for a little while – those are things that I’ve had to work on to get past – so I wanted to write about that, because it’s really important to me to portray something like that. And once again, it uses a non-linear timeline. I guess I have a thing!

 
Sarah Davies is a London-based writer from Liverpool, currently studying for her Masters in Creative Writing at Birkbeck, while also working as a freelance arts and culture specialist.  Her fiction often explores invisible power dynamics and the unsaid.  Her short story The 662 was published by Five on the Fifth, which you can read here, and she tweets as @DesiaVarsha.

Stitches by Sarah Davy

There is a note on the microwave door. ‘WIPE CLEAN AFTER EACH USE’

Your voice carries through walls, travels along pipes, pierces wallpaper, drips from taps. Your smell is a film that rubs off every surface I touch, no matter how much I scrub and clean.

I cannot find my key. I check every pocket, my bag, the top drawer. Retrace the familiar steps I take. Stand still and ask the universe to show them to me. Light spills through the lead glass door. I bend and peer through the lock. It is blocked by a key. My key. I did not leave it there.

Sun hits the dining table. I spread out the pieces, smooth creases with my palm. Nibbled edges, stains, fingertip traces. Everything a life could have been. There is a cup stain, neat and small, made by a hand painted porcelain cup with a handle just big enough for one finger. An ivory lace collar is moth eaten, frayed edges waiting to be gently brought back together. Muslins are in fine cotton, initials in red on each corner. When the light hits the bookcase, I will clear everything away.

I have put too much salt in the soup. You tell me three times as you spit it out, let it dribble down your chin and seep into your shirt. When you leave, I scan the cupboards. I have not bought salt for three years. Doctors’ orders.

There is a note on the bathroom mirror. ‘SQUEEZE FROM THE END OF THE TUBE’.

The bus has free Wi-Fi, no password needed. I buy an all-day ticket and sit upstairs, right at the front. Silver branches brush against the window, emerald leaves tickle and dapple light. I lay the work out on my knee. Thread heavy cotton onto the needle and follow the video tutorial. Needle the thread, do not thread the needle. Sturdy backstitch to join the edges, then a second row to make sure. I switch buses once, taking in the entire town, the edge lands shrouded in smoke, the glimpse of sea and heavy endless sky. I get off at the supermarket, collect food shopping and arrive before the sun hits the bookcase.

Our neighbour stops me as I fill the recycling bin. Each item wiped then washed out with boiling water. Puckered fingertips. You will check before your bedtime cigarette. She has not seen much of me lately. I look thin. Am I keeping well? Eating enough? Are we still trying for a baby? Such a shame about your loss.

There is a small case in the bottom of the wardrobe, one you would never open. Filled with things that never were. Shoes that sit in the palm of my hand. Soft ears and lemon wool. I move them aside to make space for my work. As the pieces come together, shifting into a new form, it gets harder to close. 

There is a note on the inside of the front door. ‘BE HERE WHEN I GET BACK’.

I sit in the window of the café looking out across the park. My sister is always late. I wish I could stitch while I wait, but the work is voluminous now, spilling out of itself and difficult to manage. She arrives like a whirlwind, kisses, excuses, and a smear of foundation on my cheek. She orders for us. The coffee is too strong. Everyone uses two shots now. I stir in three sugars, tense, then remember she is not here to scold me. She holds her face very still as I talk. Nods only occasionally. Leaves a long silence before speaking. ‘Give it time. It’s been hard for him, you know?’

At home, I work despite the trickling darkness, unpicking stuffing from our pillows, the settee cushions, the padding in the window seat. Just a little, here and there. I read my notes and sandwich wadding between the patched layers. Check the measurements, then check them again. There will only be one opportunity. I must get it right.

You are smiling when you open the door. You forget to raise your hand to latch it behind you. You hand me a letter and wait. A soft expectance. I have long given up on having my opinion valued. ‘Promotion. Transfer to head office. With a relocation package’. Sweat pools under my arms. I clamp them to by body, turn my mouth into a shape that I hope is a smile. Offer a swift kiss on the cheek. You bound upstairs. 

You think you are all I have. That my world revolves around you. But there is life here. Vegetables growing in the garden, birds returning year after year to nest, bulbs bursting through creating carpets of lemon and lilac, familiar nods and hellos in the street. Family a bus trip away, salt and crashing waves carried in on the breeze. If I let you take this, then you will have taken everything.

There is a note on the fridge door. ‘ESTATE AGENT COMING TOMORROW. WEAR YOUR BLUE DRESS’.

I let the knob of butter melt slowly, disappearing to a sizzle of foam. Lift my nose. You are still upstairs on the toilet, your stench a fog that chokes me. I crush the tablets with the heel of my hand, stir them into the sauce until they are rosemary and red wine. Red meat has not passed my lips for three years. Doctors’ orders. But I still make your favourite dinner every Friday. Just how you like it. 

Tonight, you go to bed early with a headache, open your mouth to blame me, soften when I suggest it’s the excitement. You work so hard. I listen for your thump and rumble, then move upstairs. 

The box is heavy now, stuffed with my work. When I unfold it, I realise for the first time how beautiful it is. Pieces of our life in a patchwork quilt, collected scraps, unused sleepsuits and repurposed linens. A keepsake. I slip it over your toes, lift your mottled calves and edge it around your waist and up until it sits around your shoulders. You stir, eyes sliding open. But you cannot move, crushed pills bubbling and settling in your veins, your arms and legs stones in a sack. I pull the thread tight, and the fabric ripples. There is a knot somewhere, fibres fighting against each other. The pale sun that had lit the room is setting, pink wisps and muted shadows. I cannot stitch in unnatural light, all flickers and brightness. I work faster. My index finger pulsing still, blood dried on the tip, pierced by the needle to the bone. I wet my fingertips with my tongue and work the thread between them until it relaxes and the knot comes free. One more row and it will be finished. Your muffled voice comes through, confused and frantic. Hot breath stinging the air. You head rests in my lap, heavy and unmoving, your shroud already soaked through with your tears. I knot the end three times. My signature. It’s for the best, I whisper. 

Sarah Davy is a writer, facilitator and lecturer living and working in rural Northumberland. Her short fiction is published online and in print and her first short play, A Perfect Knot, was performed at Newcastle Theatre Royal in 2020. Sarah was shortlisted for the Northern Writers Awards in 2020 and 2021. She was commissioned by Hexham Book Festival in 2020 and was writer in residence at Forum Books in Corbridge for 2019-2020. Sarah is working on her first novel, a collection of essays exploring belonging in rural communities and a DYCP funded full-length stage play.

The Weather Changes Here So Fast by Jack Petrubi

He’s awoken at dawn by snuffling on the blankets at the end of the bed. The room is dark, embers in the wood burner glowing iron red. But there’s no use lying there, not now. He can’t get back to sleep once he’s awake. Besides, there are things to do.

He pulls back the sheets. The air is cool. The embers from the stove don’t reach far, it’s nearly out. The cottage is always biting cold in the morning, with its stone walls, tiny windows and draughty doors. Rising in the morning is like taking an ice shower. He doesn’t like ice showers, although sometimes he and his wife jump in the harbour, when she’s there. It’s good for the soul, she says. It’d be too cold to jump in the harbour on a day like this and for a moment he’s glad she’s away. But only for a moment.

Pulling on slippers and a terry-towelling gown (also cold but quickly warm) he opens the back door. The morning is dewy and still, the western sky gloomy. Jessie streaks past him, a blur of white and black, racing back and forth through overgrown grass like a ricocheting bullet, hot breath coming in clouds. She finds a spot, does her business. He looks the other way. 

Afterwards, they return indoors. He gives the dog breakfast, puts the kettle on. Bread toasts. He checks the calendar. Wednesday. Three more sleeps until his wife comes home.

“She’s away too much,” his mother says when she calls, once a week on Tuesdays. “She should consider your needs more.”

“She’s not on holiday, Ma. She’s travelling for work.”

“So are you,” his mother replies.

Which is strictly true; although he’s not sure it counts. He travels between hotels, not continents. They travelled more together when they first met, when they were younger. Back then, their world was a stream of unfamiliar countries and shoe-string hostels, a blur of rickety train rides between music festivals and ayahuasca retreats. Now she travels alone. Her work takes her away. 

After breakfast (Marmite on toast, a hardboiled egg and a little fruit—two plums today; there are no apples) he takes a shower, pulls on his overalls and throws some coal on the wood burner to keep it ticking over throughout the day. He departs into a chilly morning, flask of tea in one hand, bundle of keys and tobacco in the other.

Out front, the sun creeps above a hilly horizon. Liquid gold lights his face. The grass is still dark with night. Dew clings to the grass. He can’t see it, but he knows it’s there; it crackles against his work boots as he walks to the van, soaks into flecks of plaster on the soles, dampens Jessie’s fur as she strides alongside him. She paces ahead, sniffs a rabbit hole, returns faithfully to his side.

An amber sun offers the only light.

As usual, the neighbours’ cottages are still dark. Still asleep. Still.

It takes an hour of bouncing through narrow country lanes, winding between hedgerows, up and over hills before he arrives at his first hotel of the day. By now it’s a beautiful morning. He wishes his wife was there to see it.

“Thank goodness you’re here,” says the girl on reception. She has nice hair. It’s not as nice as his wife’s, but his wife isn’t there. “Somebody flushed a tampon again,” she rolls her eyes knowingly. “They never read the sign, do they?” she says, as though he’d written the sign himself. “Anyway, it’s all backed up and stinks of sewage. Can you fix it?”

That’s what I’m here for, he says. 

He wonders why the girl thinks a sign will stop people flushing tampons. He knows from sore experience that people will flush whatever they like. But he doesn’t ask. People often laugh when he asks questions, they think he’s joking. Usually he’s not. 

The girl with the nice hair points him in the right direction. 

The toilet bowl is full of brown water and other unpleasant things. Semi-solid things. Returning to the van, he collects the proper tools, pausing to give Jessie a good scratch between the ears so she knows he won’t be long. She licks his face. He laughs a little in disgust, wipes his sleeve across his cheek.

When he’s done, he explains to the reception girl how he fixed the loo. It’s not important to tell her, but he wants someone to talk to, for a little while. 

“Oh, thank you!” she keeps saying, keeping her distance, keeping her shiny hair away. He wants to talk more, but she interrupts. “Well, I guess we’ll see you next time someone blocks the loo.” 

He takes his cue to leave.

Outside, the blue sky is patchy with fast-moving clouds that dapple the road as he drives, casting shadows on the cracked tarmac, leopard print grey. 

He wonders what his wife is doing. It’s 9.33am here. Before she left, she said she’d be six hours ahead… in case he wanted to keep her in mind. He isn’t good at sums, but he always keeps her in mind. 

He figures it must be around lunchtime wherever she is. Perhaps there’s a break in the conference. Perhaps she’s eating exotic cafeteria food in an exotic cafeteria, with other scientists. Good-looking men, probably. Scientists usually are. He wonders if any of them have wives who keep dog shit in the fridge.

“It’s for work,” she’d told him, when he’d asked what was in the Tupperware box. “I need a sample for the lab.”

She’d taken it fresh from the yard, explaining there was something special in Jessie’s shit. In all dog shit. If anyone could see beauty in a dog turd, he’d joked, it was her. She’d flashed a wry smile. It was a virus, she’d said—one she needed for work. He can’t recall the name and it’s bugging him. Toxo-something. He can remember that much because toxo sounds like toxic, and if dog shit in the fridge is anything, it’s toxic.

He tries to focus his thoughts, picturing a magnifying glass on a piece of paper, waiting for it to catch. What was the name? Something that made him think of Venice. Toxoplasma-something… Gondola! Yes, that was it. Toxoplasma gondola. 

He’s never been to Venice. 

His wife has. 

He arrives at the next hotel at just after ten. The day is bright and brisk but it won’t stay that way. The weather changes here so fast. The hotel manager is gruff and tired. She doesn’t speak much, except to say there’s a problem with one of the taps in the staff room. 

Most of the calls he gets are taps. Or toilets. Things that’re easy to fix. Sometimes he wonders why hotel staff can’t fix these things themselves. Of course, if they did, he’d be out of a job. It’s a quick task; the tap’s just dripping. Needs a new washer. It’s usually a new washer. Have you tried a new washer? He always asks first. It’s the plumbing equivalent of, Have you tried turning it off and on again? He probably replaces three or four washers a week. Even if he’s called for something entirely unrelated, if he’s near a tap, he’ll check if the washer needs replacing. Could save him another visit. 

He informs the hotel manager when he’s done. She’s not as friendly as the reception girl with the nice hair. And she’s got a big nose.

“Just needed a replacement washer,” he says. “That’s usually all it is.”

“Thanks,” she replies, but she doesn’t sound very thankful. Maybe she’s having a bad day. Still, he tells her to call him if there are any more problems but that replacing a washer is easy if she wants to do it herself? Or she could get one of her staff to do it, if they have a wrench? Could save him a visit, he says. But she doesn’t seem interested in washers, or taps, or wrenches. 

He leaves.

When he gets back out to the van, the clouds have completely blown away. The view from the car park is really nice. This particular hotel is on a clifftop between two towns, right alongside the coastal path. That’s what people come here for: to walk. But not so much at this time of year. Few hikers today. He decides to take a break, roll a cigarette, pour a cup of tea from the flask. 

Even with the windows up, he can hear the ocean battering the beach below. Slightly east from here, there’s a quiet cove. He and his wife spent the day there once. In summer. They sat on the beach. She read a book. He listened to music. They tried a little surfing but weren’t very good. Then they went for a walk, found a dead dolphin. He’d buried it in the sand, using a big flat rock for a spade. She’d sat on a boulder nearby, watching him. He’d thought it might be cool to come back in a year or two, once the flesh was all rotted away, see if he could collect the skull. It might make an interesting curiosity, he’d thought. 

That was a year or two ago. He thinks about going down to the beach, digging up the dolphin’s skull. But then he realises he can’t remember where he buried it. Besides, there’s a new blanket of cloud rolling in on the horizon. It might rain soon. He stubs out his cigarette, gulps down his tea and drives on.

The next hotel is in the centre of a nearby town. He’s got a bathroom tiling job that’s been in the calendar a while now. The assistant manager is a tall man, friendlier than the woman at the last place. The man reminds him of his brother, Stephen. The Stephen lookalike even remembers his name. Shakes his hand.

“Here you go, this is the one that needs tiling,” says the tall manager who reminds him of his brother. 

“It should only take a few hours,” he tells the man.

He decides to tile the bathroom in an overlapping brick pattern, which always looks nicer.

Mid-afternoon, the bathroom’s almost done. He’s not had lunch, so he takes Jessie to run around a nearby park. Children play in the playground, with their parents. They squeal on swings, chase each other up and down a metal slide. He likes kids. He’d like to have one of his own, one day.

“We wouldn’t be able to travel,” his wife says. She has a point, he supposes. Still, he’d like a kid someday. He’s getting older. He wouldn’t want to be too old of a father.

“You know what you married,” says his kid brother, Stephen. “If you wanted kids, you should have talked about it beforehand. She’s career-driven—you can’t hold her success against her. Expecting her to drop everything because you want kids is a bit sexist, isn’t it?”

That’s what Stephen says.

Thing is, he’s proud of his wife’s success. He sometimes wishes she wasn’t away so much, that’s all. It gets lonely with just the dog. But he doesn’t tell his family this. Not his mother, who would use it against his wife if she could. And not Stephen, who takes offence so easily. Every time he says something, Stephen finds a reason to jump down his throat.

 Stephen would never appreciate the reception girl with the nice hair. And not just because he prefers men. Judging people on looks isn’t right, he’d say. But that makes no sense. Doesn’t everyone judge people by how they look? 

Once Jessie has run round some, clouds are rumbling in and the playground is empty. It’s starting to rain. He drinks the last of the tea and finishes the tiling. By five o’clock it’s all done. 

“Well, it’s very neat,” the assistant manager says, arms crossed. “But the rest of the bathrooms are tiled straight, not with an overlapping pattern.”

Not again, he thinks.

“I’ll come back in the morning to redo it,” he tells the man.

“That’d be great,” the assistant manager says. He smiles, but his smile looks irritated. 

When he gets outside, rain is coming down in sheets.

By the time he gets home, it’s dark again. He feeds the dog, stokes the fire, makes some dinner. Just beans on toast. He hasn’t the energy to cook. He’ll save that for when his wife gets back.

He checks the calendar again. Tomorrow it’ll be two more sleeps before she’s home. She’ll only be back a few days, but he reminds himself how lucky he is to have her. Still, the thought makes him so tired that by eight o’clock, he’s in bed. By nine, he’s out.

 

Jack Petrubi is a European writer based in the UK and Germany. Prior to dabbling with words he worked as a furniture salesman, a glass collector and a welder. His favourite colour is pink and he enjoys romantic walks in heels at various hardware stores. His short story ‘Hearts and Minds’ won the 2021 Cambridge Short Story Prize. T: @jackpetrubi

Oranges by Jacob Parker

It’s Sunday morning. The days are longer now and today there is the first real heat of summer in the air. I’m shopping in a market in the suburbs of London. I’m in the market shopping and I’m standing in front of oranges. Oranges from Seville. They’re piled high and they are spectacular and I realise I’d completely forgotten you, for all these years. And I remember now how Seville is oranges – oranges that are on trees and squeezed in cafes in metal machines. They roll down metal slides on these machines, one by one. Firm, waiting to be parted, clenched until dripping. Makes me wonder what I owe you. 

 

I’m twenty-two and I’m in Seville for a month and I’ve decided to be a different person. I’m here to do a course. I get allocated a shared apartment. I get a room right at the top of the apartment that leads out onto a roof-terrace. There’s a washing machine up there somehow and laundry hanging out in the dry heat. I share the apartment with two other guys who are also on the course. Older than me. Grey hair, divorce, cancer. They’re both starting out on a new life. A second existence for them too. We’re really all the same in what we want, what we’re striking out for. Newness. For something to happen to our lives. And we do well together and we get on. They understand one another and get close and I’m on the edge of that, which is what I want. But we still sit out at night together on the front steps of the apartment and we drink red wine and watch this residential street in Seville cooling in the dark.

 

And Seville is oranges. It really is. They actually hang from the trees around the city – these orange trees that are all over the place. And not even for the tourists, they’re just there. They’re not trying at all. And I’m here walking around this hot city in the early autumn and I decide I will be happy, open, I will say yes and I will forget all about that pathetic person I was. And the city is mine, it swallows me up. It’s there for me and I can turn down any of the winding streets I choose. I can turn down any street and no one knows me and I’m light on my feet and every street, every street is some possibility.

 

I’m popular with the other people on the course, this new person I am. They all seem to like me. Particularly the girls. Which doesn’t feel too bad, seeing as I’m not me. I’m into this. And the girls – it’s so hot in the city, even in October – they’re kind of on show. We’re all on show. We’re all in a foreign country with people we don’t know. In the first few days the girl with the strawberry-blond hair makes it so we’re walking together to the bar, or wherever it is we’re all going, and it’s a really warm evening and she’s wearing a white vest and she wants to walk with me and I don’t remember you yet, but this girl, she’s made sure it happened that we’re walking together like this and she’s asking questions. So, why are you here? This must be what it’s like, I think. It’s so easy and I can’t believe it. Although I don’t really care. Even though it’s warm and she’s beautiful and she’s kind of walking with her shoulders back.

 

We all go for the morning coffee break to this tiny bar where everyone’s standing and someone’s paying for a coffee and I hear how they say it and takes me a while but I piece it together into English. What is my debt to you? Or maybe it’s, What do I owe you? Anyway, I like that – what is my debt to you. The barmen are in white shirts and they have black hair that shines and there are mirrors all around the outside of the bar to make this small place feel so much bigger and even the counter of the bar is all chrome metal. We can see ourselves everywhere reflected all over the place. 

 

On the weekends I turn down invites to visit places and see the sights with the others. This just seems to make them like me more. I stay in my room and on my roof-terrace surrounded by terracotta tiles. I can see rooftops for miles around. All terracotta tiles. I read. I read books on religion. Dostoyevsky. An academic commentary on Mathew’s Gospel. I do stretching exercises in the sun. I’m obsessed with this – a thirty-minute routine. I hate it too though. It’s like a penance. But I’m convinced it will make me better, that it will make me a better person. I want to be lithe and flexible and achieve some sort of inner strength. I want my body to hide a coiled power – not to use it, but so I know it’s there. On hand. I want to be surprising to people. 

 

I wasn’t even thinking about you at this point, hardly at all. You are all edges is how I remember you though. Plimsolls, skinny jeans, tight long-sleeved tops. Your elbows pointing. All angles. Like your limbs have an extra hinge somewhere. Cutting too – no  bullshit – you say exactly what you mean and you’re not afraid of anything. This whole thing is a breeze for you. 

 

Then we have a party at our apartment for the end of the course and everyone comes over for it, even the tutors. Inside there’s music, lamps and everyone is arriving and everyone is talking and you are talking to Ian. 

‘So what does your girlfriend do?’ you ask him.

‘She’s a dancer.’

‘A dancer? That’s interesting. What kind of dance?’

Your tone. I don’t even know if I care. I go to the kitchen and in the kitchen there are wine bottles beer bottles red plastic cups ice in the sink blue plastic bags and it’s all everywhere. José is in there too. José is young and he has long black hair that he keeps tucking behind one ear and he wears a white V-neck t-shirt and a black necklace. He’s into jazz, plays jazz piano. He’s the real thing. He helps me to say it’s okay in Spanish. All I seem to want to say is it’s okay

‘I think you are not saying it right,’ he says. ‘You are saying you are good, which means you are always good. You are never always good.’

 

The kitchen spills out into the living room where everyone is and Joanna is wearing a dress of bright sharp colours. She’s tied her blonde hair on one side with a red flower in it and she looks very Spanish and like she’s standing in some extra light or something. The music gets louder and someone opens the door to let air in. The walls of the living room are all blurred edges and feel too close like they’re pressing us all in, and the next moment it’s like they’re not there at all. And Maria, in a long sand-coloured dress, is leaning against the open door, laughing.

 

Then I’m upstairs somehow showing you around, sparkling drunk now and we’re having such a good time and we’re drunk and everything’s so funny and I think it’s so good being someone else, it’s so good that we’re avoiding going back downstairs where we can hear everyone and the party that is ignoring us. But to go into a bedroom would feel too irreversible so we stay on the landing with all these doors around us and the stairs going down. I want to stay where everything is still possible all of the time, all of the time, before some blunt act shuts off all those other ways. But then we’re too close and it’s all going away going away fast now and you’re leaning against the wall and I’m leaning against the wall and then it’s just too late and your lips are parting and there’s no way back. And although I’m enjoying all of this – because I know this isn’t me, I’m so pleased with myself – it’s still all just about ruined because those other possibilities all those others things that are meant to happen or happen but not like this they’re all closing now like eyes shutting. 

 

Then it’s done – the course – and we’re finished and we have to move out. But we all hang around in Seville not knowing what’s next and we all go out drinking and me and you from the time on the landing carry on drinking together and the others kind of drift home. We’re really into each other and we’re all over each other and the bar closes and we walk out and around the streets. We walk for a long time around the dark streets of Seville. We’re walking aimlessly with no idea of where we’re going and we end up down by the river. It’s either really late or it’s really early. There’s no one around. Then I’m trying to tell you I’m not actually that into you and I’m a real prick about it and you get angry and somehow while we’re arguing we end up going back to the pensíon where I’m staying. It’s the cheapest place I could find to stay and the pillows are lumpy and the bed sheets are thin with all their colour washed out of them. 

 

Once we’re in the room there’s nothing else but the bed. It’s just the room and the bed. So it’s going to happen. It has to happen. The bed is flimsy and the sheets are so old and worn and it’s so hot and we do the best we can here and we actually manage to make it something – something more than just sex in a cheap room. And everything’s all orange, everything’s washed in an orange light. It’s early morning, the curtains are dark orange and the gathering light outside is coming through the curtains and the room and everything is washed in orange. Your skin is dark orange all over. Your arms, your shoulders, your thighs. And we’re holding each other clenched together just right there. 

 

The next morning when you’re gone and I’m clearing out of the room – because I want to get out of this place and get unknown again – I find a used condom on the floor behind the bed. It’s not ours. It’s been there the whole time. It’s behind the bed on the laminate floor. It looks cold. Something just cast aside. But then I pack and get out and outside the sunlight is everywhere and it’s hard and definite and that helps. 

 

I’m trying to tell you something. In Cadiz in a restaurant, I saw a woman having dinner alone. This was before all of this in Seville, before any of this had happened. She had dressed up. This was in a restaurant in Cadiz. It was a modern restaurant. Bright. Large white plates. She was alone and she’d dressed up and she’d brought a book with her to read but she wasn’t interested in the book at all. It was like a prop. She was having dinner alone but she wanted something. She kept looking around. She wanted something else. That pointless book. She was ready – ready for everything to happen. For a hand to be offered, and  all the ordinary days to fall to earth around her.

 

Jacob Parker lives in London and teaches in a sixth form college. His short fiction has also featured in Structo, Open Pen, MIR Online, Litro, The Interpreter’s House, and others.

Interview: JOELLE TAYLOR

“That Really Happened”: An interview with T.S. Eliot Prize Winner Joelle Taylor by Amy Ridler

Joelle Taylor is an award-winning poet and author. She founded SLAMbassadors, the UK national youth poetry slam championships, as well as the international spoken-word project Borderlines. She is a co-curator and host of Out- Spoken Live, the UK’s premier poetry and music club, currently resident at the Southbank Centre. She is the commissioning editor at Out- Spoken press 2020 – 2022. Her poetry collection C+NTO & Othered Poems was published in June 2021 and is the subject of Radio 4 arts documentary Butch. C+NTO, named by The Telegraph, The New Statesman, The White Review & Times Literary Supplement as one of the best poetry books of 2021, won the T.S Eliot prize in January 2022. 

*

Joelle is reading from her T.S Eliot prize winning book, C+NTO, at Waterstones Gower street in two hours. We order our drinks at a pub close by and find a quiet corner. As always, her energy is electric…

AR: How does it feel? Has it sunk in yet?

JT: It comes in tides, it’s a bit like the sea. When it was first announced it was just pure shock, followed by elation, and then a little bit more shock. I’ve just been carried away by the waves of various interviews and suddenly there is a real validation, a real joy in being interviewed by well-known media outlets. I was in a bit of a bubble and then I stepped away and, well I’m still in shock. But really enjoying it. 

On my way here today to meet you, and every so often since it has been announced, I have a moment where I just stop and think… ‘Yes. I did. That actually happened.’ 

It’s pure joy, and not just for me. I’m still getting a lot of messages from butch women, and different members of the queer community getting in touch and then, of course, there is the outpouring of love from the spoken word community. 

AR: When the news was announced, Twitter was blowing up – my feed was filled with the news. Has the spotlight been a bit overwhelming or are you relishing it?

JT: It was a completely overwhelming experience but in the best possible way. I did panic a bit. I’m used to attention because I am a performer, I am on stage, but I can control that attention. It’s always been very controllable – whoever the audience is in the room and then maybe a smattering of people on social media, but this was crazy! It spooks me that I haven’t been able to respond to everybody. Even good friends of mine. I’ll be walking down the street and suddenly realise – I haven’t replied to them yet! 

It was coming at me from every angle. In a sense it would be more tangible if it was 30 years ago and there was a knock on the door and I got 4 boxes of mail, you know? That would have been more tangible – easier to deal with, you could separate it all out and work through it. But I’m not complaining. I did a lot of crying, it was very moving. It has been a magnificent connecting experience.

AR: C+NTO not only brings visibility, but makes it impossible for butch identity, and in a wider context, lesbian history and experience, to be ignored. I remember seeing you perform at your Songs My Enemy Taught Me launch and thinking, I HAVE TO WRITE ABOUT THIS. I got in touch and you very kindly sent me some of your writing, including a section of C+NTO. I did write about it – I named the final chapter of my dissertation ‘Our Whole Lives Are Protests.’

Your work is so important- I imagine there has been an outpouring of support from lesbians around the globe – what’s that like? 

JT: It’s been amazing. I knew I was likely to get online abuse – I’m talking about butch women. It’s a historical piece as you know and I thought to myself, I’m writing this book, and I need to be honest. Honest about what it was like, and what it feels like for me, but I wanted to be fairly nebulous in the sense that I want a universal. I want anybody that feels they don’t fit their body to find their place in it. Anybody who has ever had a friendship or a loved a friend whose known that amazing sense of radical community to find their space within my book. 

Right from the start, I went out on the road with it. Taking something out there is the antithesis of Twitter – everyone is in the room with you. Every flavour of the LGBT+ community is in the room with you and they are all responding in the same way. All so full of love and joy, even though it is an incredibly depressing piece, but because we don’t get to hear it spoken about; that’s what gives you the sense of joy. It’s giving the voice to something that isn’t spoken about in mainstream culture. It’s been incredibly supportive. 

I know what I’m writing about, and I think a real book is not meant to be instructive, it sets the scene, asks a couple of questions, maybe a couple of declamations, and then you do the rest of the work. The responses have been amazing – young butch femme couples are reaching out. The looks on their faces in the audience! I’m an elder, for me it’s really important that this hidden culture, this much maligned culture – because its women – is being elevated, even just a little bit, again and reinvestigated, particularly by younger communities, so that we have the sense of who we all are. I didn’t write the book with any political aim, I wrote it because I was full of grief. I wanted to talk about my friends and I wanted to talk about another grief, which is walking around London and seeing nowhere we used to have. We have 1 bar. People say, ‘there’s a few lesbian bars around’ – there is 1. 1 left. Our bars were our homes, our community centres in a lot of respects. People want these spaces, they want to create those spaces again – including sober spaces.

AR: I have been showing videos of your poems in classrooms around London for a long time, but to be able to talk about your work with students, and tell them that you won the prize – just in time for LGBT+ history month – was amazing. 

One of my students said that seeing someone who looks like you, makes her want to take her creative writing more seriously because, ‘people like us are going places.’ She’s sent me 2 short stories since. Visibility is so important. If you could have seen someone who looks like you when you were a teenager, writing and performing, what would that have meant? 

JT: That is incredible. It would have shortcut 30 years of journeying, much of which was full of obstacles because of the way I look. It would have meant I could have been myself instead of everyday getting up, trying to look like someone who should be in school in a workshop. That was the biggest panic for me, everyday – that’s why way into my 40s I am still dressing like a punk! I couldn’t find a way of looking that was normal, that was me. 

To be able to shortcut that I think is a real power. 

It would have meant I had someone to really relate to. To argue with and to not be like, because it’s really important that whilst we respect our elders and what they’ve done, we also find what they didn’t do, and make sure we work on that for the next generation to find fault with. That’s the way we develop and evolve. 

I think one of the things I’ve been thinking and talking about – how it used to be. When you went into the pubs, people think it was just like popping into any bar – It wasn’t. It was like going somewhere and being met. Greeted by someone who knew you, as you walked in the room, even if you had never met before. You’re young, and some elder butch would come over and welcome you in, make sure you were sat alright and keep their eye on you, to make sure you’re safe and welcomed – because the welcome is such an important part of a culture that is despised. Suddenly, you’re outside the door and you’re hated, by family, friends, society, and inside the door you are welcomed. This incredible shift, created by 3 inches of wood. Those figures are so important, not just when you are young and new to scene, but all the time. My friend Roman is still that person for me, and for a lot of people. Roman remembers. Roman remembers the old ways and is passing them down. 

AR: Who are your go to poets, either poets that have inspired your work OR new poets who you think are shining?

JT: There is some brilliant writing out there. I am hugely inspired by Danez Smith. I was lucky enough to be able to bring Danez over from the states for Outspoken a few years ago, to perform. Don’t Call Us Dead had just come out, it was a really amazing incredible performance- the books incredible, the writing, the passion, the power, the uncompromising nature of all of Danez’s work. I’m part of the spoken word Slam community, and there has been links with Danez for a long time, since they were a kid – they wouldn’t have necessarily known who I was, but I’ve always known who they were, through young slam projects. 

What inspires me is the way they balance between spoken word and the page. It’s that balance. 

Equally, Sam Sax. Kaddish is a superb performance, the writing is off the hook. I’ve had dinner with Sam Sax and they are an exceptionally lovely human.

Fatima Asghar, If They Should Come For Us is one of the best poems that I use in workshops, its beautiful. 

Momtaza Mehri, is going to knock everybody sideways – absolutely stunning writing, her poem Glory Be To The Gang Gang Gang is the best praise poem that’s ever been written. She just does this thing that mixes working class, Muslim and Somalian identities together to create something that’s very new, very fresh. Academic but kind of street. Antony Anaxagorou because he challenges me every day. I can list poets for hours! I’ve just done a list of my 5 LGBT+ poetry collections and it’s actually very difficult to find women who are writing these ground breaking books. Where is Adrienne Rich? Where is Audre Lord? Who are they? Caroline Bird has written some of the most amazing poetry around lesbian subjects, particularly Dive Bar, about Gateways. It’s astonishing. I love it. I’m just very lucky to be inspired by listening to different voices every day and I think there are some really interesting non-binary and trans voices coming through. 

AR: Does this recognition feel like an honour to the community, and more specifically to the women who influenced your work? It was already an honour to the community, but has the level of publicity that comes with the prize elevated that?

JT: Absolutely. It feels like a memorial to them. There are far more than I listed in the book. I made a little list on my phone. Obviously I never tell people their real names, but there is a huge long list. It’s not just for the 4 women I talk about – they are amalgamations of people, plus me, I am in every character as well – it’s for people who aren’t explicitly talked about in the book. What I’ve been getting in the feedback is that it feels like that for a lot of people, about their friends. 

It’s about grief and loss as much as it’s about butch culture. I think I was trying to get across – and what comes across stronger in the stage play –  is the particular grief of how butch women die. I talk about specific instances in the book – violence, drug abuse, alcoholism, suicide, as well as corrective rape and getting battered. There is a real grief in not being able to control our bodies, even after death. It bears reminding younger LGBT+ people that its only very recently that if I suddenly die, my wife can inherit my money. Those things don’t seem to matter when you’re younger, but when you get older, you start thinking: who IS going to look after me? Where am I going to go? And of course, many gay people don’t have that. Some of us lost our families very young, and many still do, in that sense of exile. It has been a memorial, not just for those mentioned but for a lot of butch women, and gay people in general. 

AR: If someone had told you, when you first started out, that in 2022 you would win the TS Eliot prize – what would you have said?

JT: Oh man, have I got to wait that long!? (Ha). 

No, If someone had told me when I was 22 that I would win this in 2022… It is absolutely mind blowing. 

Because I’m from a working-class community, I have two sets of friends. One set is all about poetry and literature, they really get the enormity. The other is all about who we are and where we’re from – and that means when you get something like the Eliot’s or the Booker, or anything like that, whilst your working-class friends are pleased for you, they’re not that involved. They haven’t dreamt of winning the Eliot prize, but they have all been there for me 100%, and I’ve been really really grateful. 

AR: What’s next? 

JT: I’m doing a lot of touring! I’m off to Australia for a month and it will be the 3rd time I’ve toured across Australia. I’m touring to less places this time, but the size of the events are considerably different. I’m doing Adelaide Writers Week at the beginning, which I’ve done before and it is one of the best festivals I’ve ever been to. From there, we go to Melbourne, for one night only at the wheeler centre, which I’m really excited about because it’s a place I haven’t toured. It is also the home of Butch Is Not a Dirty Word magazine, and the home of a vibrant lesbian culture, so I’m told. Then I finish with 2 events at Sydney Opera house. The tour is threaded together with about eight performances, panels and masterclasses, most of them are remote because it’s difficult to travel across states. Then, when I come back, I’m taking up a poetry fellowship at the University of East Anglia, where I will be terrifying students as much as possible (Ha!). I’m doing a residency for Liverpool University for a week, then off to Finland, Belfast, and Edinburgh International Book Festival. 

BUT really, the real work is that I am finishing The Night Alphabet, the book that I started in 2018 AND I’ve been commissioned to write my memoirs. 

…and the big big big BIG thing is that C+NTO has been adapted to a 2 hour live musical stage show. We did a section of it in November and we are trying to find a home. I still need to do some work on it, but the aim is that by the end of this year that will be done, ready to tour in 2023. It has the most amazing actors in it, I play Jack Catch. It’s going to have a lot of circus skills in it, and inside vitrines, maybe some DJs from the bell, the door of Gateways, a cigarette burning – So, I’m trying to bring the book alive. I’ve changed the story slightly, to make it clearer, but you’ll have to come and see.

The atmosphere at the Gower street event, reflects the excitement that has been buzzing in the LGBT+ community since the prize was announced. Joelle steps out on stage, impeccably dressed, and the applause is overwhelming. Sitting amongst the people in this audience feels like community. It feels like coming home.

Amy Ridler is  a writer and English teacher in East London, where she runs the LGBT+ society. She has written about her experiences as an ‘out’ teacher, most recently in a chapter entitled ‘Miss, are you part of LGBT?’ for Big Gay Adventures in Education, which was published by Routledge in 2021. She has worked with the queer, feminist Live Art Theatre company Carnesky Productions as an associate artist since 2009 and continues to be a member of the company’s advisory board. She is currently an MA Creative Writing student at Birkbeck.
Twitter: @amy_ridler
IMAGE: ROMAN MANFREDI

Crocodile Sanctuary by Deborah Nash

She’d walked along the beach for an hour that afternoon in the sun and rested up on the pier to lick her vanilla and blackcurrant cookie ice cream in a waffle cone. On the next bench, two pink- and purple-plumed teens with tentacled H.P. Lovecraft creatures tattooed on shoulders and thighs were speaking rapidly in sing-along French, luinesavaitpasmemefairecac’estunvraicochon! She wanted to eavesdrop, to join in, to ask them if they’d seen the crocodile everyone was talking about, but knew no French so lick-licked the soft gold cream, before it ran down her arm and dripped between the cracks of the wooden planks into the water below.

The teens got up, drawn to the call of the bongo drums beating out across the esplanade, leaving her alone with the incinerated hulk of the west pier, staring across at its burnt bones falling away into the roiling silver, while squally gulls glided, their arched wings shaping eyebrows in the air, as frothy wavelets curled and splashed over long, stepped groynes, like the crested tails of large lizards. 

She wasn’t taking the escaped crocodile seriously, no one was. In the news reports, it was just one more mythical beast, not a razor-crunching reality. She wondered if the reptile would return to the sanctuary of the ocean, as its ancestors had in the dreamtime, when creatures that could fly flew up, and creatures that could swim swam down. The sea was a place where a crocodile could hide, where it could grow and shape-shift into whale or beaked turtle. 

She too had washed up here, breaking free from the silent civilised city of smooth glass and cream stone that had been her long-time home. A chance to start over, to change. Slowly, the crocodile shaped itself in her mind: its barnacled pebbly hide, rackety teeth and polished garnet eyes, hidden there, beneath the shimmery surface of the Channel. 

The multi-tongued sea taunted her with the impossibility of transformation, that her story, at forty, was already mapped out like a nautical chart, that she was settled in shape like a stone on the beach, that she could not shed her crabbed skin, that she would remain in hues of sandy orange, mottled grey, chalk white and charcoal, as far as the eye could see. 

“I’m hard and dry, as fixed as rock, when what I want most is the turquoise lightness of water.”

Sun further west, sea further in. It was a shock to find someone had sat down next to her. “That’s the sea for you. It’s slippery, it seeps into your cracks and takes you unawares.”

  A noble profile; skin the colour of kelp, eyes pale and glinting, like the albino fish she’d glimpsed once in a subterranean cave in Slovenia. Hair deep blond with a curl and carelessly pulled into a chignon on top of the head, eyebrows shaven, nails manicured, painted lavender. She wanted to look more closely at the torso wrapped in its cape but reluctant to stare, concentrated instead on the dark polished cane they were holding in front of them. On top was a small carved face like a netsuke, and as she studied it, saw it was not one face but two: the conjoined masks of leering comedy and cruel tragedy. 

She looked up and saw the pale eyes on her. “I’m new here. Moved down from London during… well, you know…”

They were nodding, “I know.” 

It seemed then  she fell into a trance, couldn’t describe afterwards whether they had talked an hour or sat in silence, hypnotised by the inning and outing of the tide, the slipping away of the sun, the pixilating shingle along the curve of the coast.

“The crocodile,” she said at last. “Has anyone found it? I mean a crocodile on the loose is a dangerous thing…”

“Oh yes,” they said. “No question.” A hesitation, a smile. “But I’ve got it. It’s safe in my special place. Like to see?”

She was astonished by the invitation, suspicious of it. “You’ve got the crocodile?”

“I have.” A whiff of humour, like the joke was on her. She glanced at the carved knob on the tip of the cane.

“…fractured my ankle and waiting to heal. Are you coming?”

She stood up and strode alongside her limping caped companion; had to run to keep up with them as they navigated the empty esplanade, the spaceship cars and troglodyte bicycles parked at Sea Life World, turning left then right, into the cheery lights of Kemp Town.

They stopped outside a low tavern with bow window where an upside-down naked doll hung, arms and legs all swapped around. The stranger knocked, with the twin-faced walking stick, on a door festooned in fairy lamps.

“So Harry Potter, isn’t it?”

The door opened. A shaven-headed carnival gull in feathers exclaimed “Janus!” then darted a sharp peck at the She.

“Soul mate, found adrift,” they replied.

“Come in, driftwood welcome here!”

They entered a narrow, condom-tight cabin, that extended back to cellar stairs; walls throat-red and mirrors somehow liquid, a bright tank next to the bar flashed with the round gulping mouths and disk-shaped eyes of silver fish. 

She felt mottled grey. An old stone you’d want to hurl into the flames of a fire. 

A crowd flooded in to hug and shake Janus and finding herself separated she went to where a crocodile stood on its hind legs behind the counter, a crocodile with long dreads and hoofs for feet, a crocodile wiping a dimpled glass into which it poured sea water.

She took the glass and stared. Were those tiny plankton shuddering about inside? She lifted the beaker up to the light to see.

“It’s not spiked,” grinned the crocodile.

 She sniffed, inwardly held her nose and swallowed, then looked around for Janus, saw them sucked down the throat into the cavern below. She followed, sank herself deep into its dark belly where the candles guttered and oddball chairs stood at mishmash tables, where the low ceiling dripped with fishing nets and swinging plastic lobsters; more mirrors, more fish tanks. She perched on a seat in front of a band of leathery pterodactyls as they struck up. Dream Tobacco sounded out.

Once I was a man and I loved a woman

Truly I believed that she loved me

Then some other woman came and stole my woman

Right away my life meant nothing to me…

The music, the dancing shadows, suggested the vast ancientness and newness of life; how she was floating in a bubble of time, then how time itself was stretching and spooling back to the pre-time, when crocs were dominant in the world drama, and then suddenly, she saw time flinging its tentacles up to the stars like a giant squid, up there, where one day spaceship arks would soar, seeking sanctuary, to build a home somewhere else, from which to watch the dying earth.

The pterodactyls played on.

Someone hand me down that opium pipe

Oh dream tobacco take me away

Where there ain’t no memories to lead me astray

Where I can hear sweet music the lived long day …

She sipped her drink, pausing to decide whether it was Elderflower or Kombucha. The dancers, some lean and lithe, others ponderous, were lurching and skidding on the froth of beer and seawater. There were tails; there were horns, and there was Janus, throwing off their cape, caught by a long-snouted toothless iguanodon in mulberry red who wrapped it about themselves. Janus had lost their cane, was dancing limp-free, healed by this flirtation with water.

“Who takes your fancy?” asked a proud stegosaurus in lazy drawl, wearing Lycra cyclist tights, not looking at her but lost in their own reflection in the mirror, gaze enchanted by what they saw.

“No one. I’m spoken for.”

A snort as they pulled away from the reflection, glancing at her. 

“Where is he, then?” Eyes working the room.

“It’s not a he.” 

Eyes returning, settling on her, like a surprise find.

“A she?” 

Heads spun, inquisitive glances, glitter ball fishes tapping their noses against glass aquarium walls. 

She shook her head again and took another sip of her drink. 

“It’s not a she, it’s a what.”

“A what?” Stegosaurus quizzical, wondering if she was meat.

“A croc.”

“A what?”

A whoop, as a shower of light and dead stuff fell from the ceiling, making the cavern snap and gurgle and laughter rippled out, catching Janus, her crocodile, swimming towards them in its current.

“I knew she’d fit right in,” they were saying.

In an instant, the cavern erupted into sprays of bubbles and she was paddling with Janus, singing the song of Dream Tobacco and everything boundless and boundary-less, and it was obvious that her shell was pierced.

Later, when she thought back, she remembered a tale from her childhood: the one about a Fairy Queen holding court in a big empty house, who invites two musicians from the human world to entertain her guests for the evening. They play their fiddles and stay 200 years, though they think they’ve been playing for only one night. When they leave, they catch up with human time and disintegrate, blown away by the wind. She worried that the same might happen to her, that finding herself so changed she might not survive in both worlds.

After the asteroid crash and the opening of the oceans, she crawled out of the cavern and along the esplanade, back to her own neat home, back to the cat waiting for her, and she knew she was diversified, changed from rock to croc. 

“I’ve found my tribe,” she thought. “I’ve found where I belong.”

But the next week, and every week, she tried to locate the bar in Kemp Town with the sea inside, but she never managed it. Perhaps they were all swept away by the outgoing tide, dissolved in the morning sun, perhaps they had been lost for eternity, like the escaped crocodile.

 

Deborah Nash is based in Brighton and has had an eclectic range of employments from fish n’ chip shop and factory floor shoe-picker to community artist, sub-editor and now writer. She has written 12 children’s books and is a regular contributor to The Wire, Selvedge, Londonist, and France magazine, among others. She was prize-winner in 2020 for the YPPT script-writing competition for a puppet play, longlisted for Emma Press picture-book call-out 2020 and her short stories appear in Litro, Stand magazine and Ambit.

The Others by Rosemary Johnston

“The swans on the river where we used to live have laid some eggs on a nest they made at the weir,” said Olive, who was waiting at the nursery door to collect her children, Nia and Mikey. The other mothers turned to look at Olive, but not in a good way. “I was just texting my friends to find out if they’d survived the high tide,” she continued, “and if any had hatched.” 

Olive had hoped that by saying something interesting she could engage them in conversation. And that she would have signalled that she was new, open the way to talk about moving. They might sympathise about missing friends and so on. 

“It’s a precarious place to build a nest,” she said, her voice tailing off. 

The only response from them was to move their sunglasses, as one, from the tops of their heads to cover their eyes, which was equivalent, Olive thought, to slamming a door shut.

They knew she was new anyway.

Trying to talk to them only served to precipitate the formation of the huddle that they formed every morning. Olive felt like a robot penguin that had been embedded in the huddle by the team from Frozen Planet to record their goings on. Only they’d worked out quite quickly that she may look like a penguin, but she didn’t smell like one. This was now the second week she had listened to their daily gakker about who was free for tea. By tea, they meant tea dates for the children. If the children were not available, the reasons were mostly sporty. Cricket, tennis, rowing.

Olive had chosen this school because she had liked the small classrooms set in the rooms of the old house that had been converted into a prep school. She thought the small class size of only twenty children would benefit Nia, who was a bit shy, when she started school in September. The lawns were used for games, the girls skipped across them in their straw boaters and striped summer dresses, white socks falling down around ballerina ankles. The boys kicked footballs in the timeless grey shorts of the English private school, their green woollen caps askew on their sweaty heads, all stuffed full of learning. 

Nia and Mikey had joined the nursery only a few weeks before the end of the summer term, so the timing was bad for finding some families to hang out with over the holidays. As each friendless day went by, Olive began to feel more desperate. There were two months of holidays to fill and she was going to have to spend them alone with the kids. What with all the renovations on the house, there was no money for holidays. Though no doubt Alex would manage to get abroad, Trieste or Budapest – conference season was in full swing.

Back at home she created a word document with her name and address on it, email and mobile number, plus the names of the children, imported a pretty flower motif, copied and pasted several times. She printed out the sheets and then cut them into little homemade calling cards. She made the children their tea then started baking.

When she dropped off the children the next morning, she handed the cards out to each mother as she arrived.

“I’ll be at home today,” Olive said. “Pop round, I’ve baked a cake.” 

A thin, angular woman with white-blonde hair pulled back in a severely aggressive bun, reached out her hand to Olive taking the homespun visiting card. While she assessed it, Olive looked down at the woman’s shoes – shiny black with a jewel-encrusted strap across them, with heels of only a millimetre in diameter.

“I am Liudmila. I cannot,” the woman said, in an eastern European, or possibly Russian accent. “I am cardiologist. That is,” she continued emphatically “- the heart.”

She went to return the “card” to Olive, but Olive stopped her and said, “Oh maybe you can give me a call in the summer? – your son, I don’t know his name, might want to come and play with Mikey?” 

Liudmila handed the card back, saying “Leonid has water sports and Russian language camp on Lake Baikal – that is Siberia. Do you know?” 

“Only from Dostoevsky,” Olive replied.

The look Liudmila threw her made Olive hope the spiked heels were not in fact darts.

She handed out more cards then waved bye-bye through the window to Nia and Mikey who had already donned painting aprons. 

Crossing the playground, she was passed by Clover running towards the nursery, dragging her daughter behind her. Clover’s long hair hung wavy and unkempt, her coat open.

“Hi,” said Olive. “Want to come by my place this morning? Coffee. You know.” 

“Sorry, in a rush…”

Olive waited in the street for Clover, watching the prep school mums mount their Range Rovers and drive their Sweaty Betty asses off to their yoga classes.

When Clover exited the school gate, she took the “card” from Olive with an unsteady hand.

“Who’s going?” she asked. 

“It’s a sort of open morning, I’ve invited everyone,” Olive replied in as upbeat a voice as she could manage. “But I don’t know who’ll turn up.”

Clover reached into her pocket and took out a packet of cigarettes and lit one.

“That bunch of bitches? Fuck me no!”

Then seeing Olive’s reaction and with a disdainful wave of her hand, she declared that they were all so “nouvy.” 

She puffed out a long exhalation of smoke.

 

“I’ve got a massive hangover. I need to find some aspirin.”

She dragged on the cigarette again. Then she stubbed the fag out in the eye of one of a pair of plaster cherubs that decorated the entrance gate of the Victorian building. Once extinguished, she used her middle finger to flick the butt over the wall into the playground.

“I’m off to see my solicitor.”

Back at home Olive filled the kettle and set some cups and some plates out on the long farmhouse-style table. And waited. 

Half an hour later there was a knock on the door and when she opened it, Kendra was standing there, and, coming up the path behind her, Nadine. Olive had seen them in the huddle and knew their names, but apart from that she had no idea what to expect of them. 

Kendra strode inside while Olive waited for Nadine. She showed her into the kitchen where Kendra was already having a good look around. 

“Nice space,” said Kendra. “You going for the ‘urban vibe’?” Her steely grey eyes coolly assessed the bare floorboards and the walls which had been stripped back to brick and not yet replastered.

“Oh no,” Olive replied. “It’s just that we’ve run out of money for a new kitchen. Replacing the roof cost a fortune.”

“Ohhhhh!” said Kendra, her eyes widening.

“The cooker’s new, obviously, and the fridge.”

Olive stood at one end of the table, at which, in their previous home, she, Alex and the kids had had many a felicitous gathering. Kendra and Nadine sat at the other end. They seemed a world away. And when Olive asked what they’d like to drink, their voices rang out, clipped and glacial, in the empty space.

“A decaf soya latte,” said Kendra.

“Peppermint tea,” said Nadine.

“Jesus Christ!” Olive joked “where do you think you are? Starbucks?” 

Instead of the expected laugh, Nadine snapped that she was dairy intolerant. She was dressed for exercise in leggings and a black hoodie. Her dyed black hair was pulled tightly back which made her face stern, prissy, even. If her aim had been Sporty Barbie, the result was more Penitential Barbie.  

“Would you make fun of a child who had allergies and intolerances?”

“Errr… no… not at all,” said Olive. “I’ll get you a glass of water.” 

Olive took the cakes out of the cake tins anticipating gasps of appreciation but neither of them noticed and they kept talking to each other. 

“I’m off to Sasha’s shortly,” Kendra said. “Need to keep an eye on the time. She wanted to show me some fabric samples for the blinds in the orangerie.” 

“Oh Sasha’s!” said Nadine, looking at Kendra as if to say, but she was my friend first. “I invited her to mine but we haven’t managed to set it up yet.”

“She told me she was overwhelmed with people inviting her places, since they moved into the Hall.” 

Olive awaited her moment, an orange and cardamom cake in one hand and a pineapple tarte tatin in the other. The tarte tatin had been tricky to produce. She’d had to throw the first attempt away and start again.

“I’ve been told my cakes taste pretty good,” she said. 

They looked up at her as if they had suddenly realised they were in a theatre and the play had begun.

“I’m thinking of setting up a cake making business.”

“Tippi’s cakes are amazing,” said Nadine.

No, they were not watching a play. They were watching the ads during an intermission for a product they were not interested in buying.

“She did one for Sam’s birthday with cricket stumps, two teams with different coloured kits, and a scoreboard that actually lit up!” said Kendra.

“Really it’s more about how they look,” said Nadine, “than about how they taste.”

“Yeah, you’d have major competition. Major.

Olive took out a knife and the cake slice.

“Which would you like?” 

“I’m trying to lose a few pounds,” said Kendra. 

“I’m gluten intolerant,” said Nadine. 

“Anyway, I’m not that into cake.”

Olive cut herself a piece of cake. With all the waiting for things to cool and the tidying up, it had been 1.30 am before she’d got to bed, so she wanted at least to try one. But knowing that she would be the only one to indulge lessened the pleasure she would have in eating it.

Kendra stood up and went over to the large draughty windows.

“What are you doing about window treatments?” she asked, looking out to the garden that was full of rubble.

“All the frames seem in good nick. The surveyor didn’t highlight any issues.”

“I don’t mean the woodwork. I mean the dressings.”

“Dressings?”

“Have you got a designer?”

“Oh, I see what you mean. Alex has put up roller blinds til we get sorted.”

Kendra sat down beside Nadine and sighed.

“My mother-in-law has refused to pay for my new curtains.”

“That’s terrible!” Nadine’s words sympathised. But she seemed to hold her breath, her look watchful.

“Said it was the curtains or the school fees. I’d’ve happily taken the buggers out of school but Arty said it wouldn’t do for Whittier boys to be seen at a state school.”

Olive laughed.

“You think it’s funny but no one else is having to make these choices.”

Olive reined in her laughter. They all seemed to take themselves so seriously. She was going to have to adjust her sensitivity monitor because she seemed to keep misjudging them.

Kendra took her phone from her hip pocket, swishing through it. “I’m just checking the bidding,” she said. “It’s almost the hour.” 

“What are you having to sell this time?” Nadine asked.

“The Limoges.”

“The Limoges? No!” Nadine seemed horrified. But there it was again – was that an element of schadenfreude in her tone that went unnoticed by Kendra?

“Am I missing something?” Olive asked.

“Dinner service wedding present from the mother-in-law,” explained Kendra. “When am I ever going to use that? I’m no cook. It’ll pay for the curtains. It’s a Zoffany fabric, two hundred quid a metre and there’s a lot of windows.”  

“I would be surprised if the Limoges covered it,” said Nadine.

“You would be surprised,” said Kendra, rising up on the heels of her thigh length boots that she wore even though it was summer. “People pay a fortune for that old shit!”

“Old?”

“She didn’t buy it new. The dinner service was passed to her and then it was passed to me.”

“I never thought of pet food money being old money,” said Nadine.

“Pet food!” said Olive. “Is that your husband’s job?”

“He doesn’t have a job exactly,” Kendra explained, giving a deep throaty laugh. “He just lives off it!” 

“Where did you meet?” asked Olive.

“I worked for the business. In accountancy. Til I had the kids.” 

“Somebody’s got to bring up the heirs,” said Nadine.

“Two boys. Nightmare.”

Without knowing Sasha, Olive could see why she would choose Kendra over the more spartan Nadine for a curtain friend. Her clothes declared that she was not only not afraid to spend money, she wanted everyone to know it too. Over her top, she wore a fur gilet, fake or real, Olive was not qualified to appraise it.

“The thing is,” Kendra continued, “she gave us the money for a big house but then withholds the money to furnish it.”

“It doesn’t seem right!” Nadine sympathised.

“But what I say is we either get the money now or when she dies. Why wait?” 

She held her hands up in a gesture of despair, and the charms from a bangle jangled and sparkled.

“When I submitted the proposal for the curtains…”

“Hang on a minute,” Olive said, “what do you mean submitted the proposal?”

“I mean I have to ask in writing for money for every aspect of the project.”

“What project?”

“The house.”

“Oh, are you doing up a house?”

“It’s the one she lives in,” Nadine explained.

“That’s right. I have to submit a proposal to the mother-in-law every time I want to buy something for the house I live in with her son and her grandsons.”

“It’s like asking for alms,” said Nadine.

“And I’m no Catholic.”

“It’s a pity you didn’t find out about the tight grip of her hands on the purse strings before you married him.”

“That is a major regret. Major! But like I say, she can’t live forever. Anyway, in the proposal, I’d factored in an extra ten grand to clear off the credit card.”

“Can’t Arty pay it off?”

“Ask me no questions, I’ll tell him no lies.”

Now it was Olive who was watching a play from beside the kitchen counter where she was surreptitiously helping herself to another slice of cake. Kendra strode about Olive’s kitchen, her heels rapping forcefully on the wooden floor as if she was on an empty stage that she was totally owning. There was a kind of magnificence to her awfulness and her expectation that the audience would totally get her and her terrible predicament. 

“Thing is, it’s not like any of it’s for me. It’s only things for the house. But I had a few transactions go wrong.”

“What do you mean?”

“I bought more on eBay than I managed to sell. I usually make a small profit or even if it’s a loss it’s usually small enough to be “disappeared.” I’m hoping the Limoges will do it this time.”

“It’s incredible you have to live like that,” Nadine commiserated. “Selling expensive old stuff to buy second-hand new stuff.”

“I’m maxed out on my cards. I’ve had to ask my dad to pay them off for me.”

Kendra took her car keys from her bag.

“It was nice to see….” she looked around. “… where you live.”

Olive saw her to the door and when she returned to the kitchen, Nadine wasted no time in setting upon her.

“What’s she like? Asking her mother-in-law to pay for the curtains.”

“I thought you were friends.”

Nadine hesitated. “There’s no such thing as friendship here. Only …. manoeuvres.”

Olive wondered if Nadine’s presence at her kitchen table was an example of the said manoeuvres – Kendra went somewhere, Nadine followed.

“Is her dad loaded, too?”

“He’s a retired miner…”

“A miner? 

“… or redundant, however you put it.”

Money may make the world go round, but it seemed it was miners’ money that was doing the spinning.

“But I thought Kendra….” 

“Yeah, County Durham. She dropped the accent.  She only worked in the business til she thought it would be more profitable to marry into the family. Social climber.  In the first week of nursery, she managed to wangle the addresses of everyone from the school office, then drove around each house to see who had the biggest one! That was Sasha’s. So Kendra set about bagging her, like she had done her husband. No one else could get a look in.”

“Are they all equally awful?”

The length of time Nadine took to say “no” was not reassuring. “The question you have to ask yourself is, do you want to be socially dead?”

 

Olive considered this proposition and was filled with a lacerating homesickness. She had imagined an ingenuous coffee morning from a time before: the mothers would moan about their husbands and express equal amounts of pride and exasperation in their children.

There was a knock at the door.

“That might be Clover…”

It turned out to be the delivery guy with another box of paint samples.

“I didn’t think it would be Clover. She doesn’t socialise much.”

“Oh that’s a shame. She seems…. interesting.”

“She can be a bit … flaky.”

Oh?

“You didn’t hear this from me….” Nadine looked around Olive’s kitchen, though there were still just the two of them in it. “You won’t know since you’ve just arrived… She’s just come out of a clinic.”

“Oh! What sort of clinic?”

“Drying out.”

“Just come out or about to go in?” Olive asked, thinking about the playground at drop off.

“Just got out. The husband’s affair sent her over the top.”

“Is Clover ok?” 

“I think they’ve decided to make a go of it,” said Nadine picking up her bag and getting ready to go.

Olive accompanied her to the door and with quite some relief closed the door on the second of the Mothers Grim.

When Alex got back from work he asked how her morning had been. She thought about explaining, in the manner of an anthropology lecture, that in this culture it seemed to be acceptable to stalk potential friends til you worked out how much they were worth. 

“Kendra is married to the Paws and Jaws family so they’re living on dog food, as it were.” 

Alex was already sitting at the table with his laptop open. Olive glanced over his shoulder.

“Sorry, darling, what did you say?” He was looking at the average daytime temperature in July in Ankara.

Soon it was the last day of school before the summer. Olive waited outside for the children to gather up their belongings while everyone in the frenzied huddle asked everyone else where they were going on holiday. Even though they all seemed to already know. Dubai.

“Are you all going together?” Olive asked.

“Ha ha! No!” Kendra laughed, then asked “Have you ever been to Dubai?”

“I prefer not to visit places that haven’t abolished slavery,” Olive replied realising as she spoke that she was heading for social death.

She stared at the mothers as they reformed the huddle. Surely there must be someone worth getting to know? Who was she kidding? They were as grotesque as circus acts. Where was Clover? She might have proven an ally, but she had seemingly disappeared from the playground a few days after the cakeless coffeeless morning.

The children came filing out of the nursery, clutching in their guileless fingers the term’s output of crafting. Mikey handed a pile of paintings to Olive. She set them in the pram and followed him and Nia across the playground, glancing down at Mikey’s piece of art nouveau. White feathers glued onto some glinting, coloured paper. It made her think of the swans on the river where they used to live. “What is it you’ve made?” she asked, hoping for spiritual guidance from her small son. “What does it mean? Is it swans? Are they swimming away? Or are they returning to the riverbank where they were born?” But Mikey’s interest lay elsewhere now and he ran to the school gate beyond which beckoned the carefree days of summer.

Nadine called from the huddle that she’d be in touch. It was pathetic, Olive felt, to hang on to this potential offer, like receiving a job offer to work for someone she didn’t like. What would she have to do or become to breach Fortress Huddle? Why did she want anything to do with them? It was this: they had what Olive, Nia and Mikey needed – children. Maybe the white feathers in Mikey’s collage were not swans but her soul which might be swept away by dark waters, if she stayed here, and entered into a Faustian pact with the huddle. 

During the holidays, Olive divided the local park into what she termed Zones of Enjoyment, the playpark, the paddling pool, the pinewoods. All summer, the three of them alone. In the last week, she received a postcard from Nadine with a picture of the Burj Al Arab hotel. On the back was a scribbled note saying sorry they’d been too busy to get in touch but would “catch up” soon. The card had been posted in England. It reminded Olive that they’d be returning to the elite sports academy she had unwittingly signed up for. So she booked a tennis court for an hour and tried to give her four year old and two year old some tennis coaching. It didn’t go well.

In the next court sitting on a bench was one of the mothers she recognised from school. She was reading a book while her twin boys were coached on the courts.

“What you reading?” Olive asked. 

The woman didn’t speak but, by way of an answer, she turned the book to Olive.

Olive took in the title, “How to Raise a Champion” while Nia stood by, observing. Beside them, Mikey scuffed the tennis racket along the surface of the court. 

“Not my cup of tea,” said Olive, chivvying Nia and Mikey to pack up their belongings.

“No wonder nobody likes us,” Nia commented as they set off home. “You should’ve just said you liked that book. That’s what we do at nursery when you don’t like someone’s drawing. If you don’t, they won’t be friends with you.” 

“So you lie to make friends?”

Nia folded her arms across her chest like the village wise woman and, head down and determined, set off up the stony path that led to the road home. Olive followed behind pushing Mikey in the pram. The little Joan Miró was making abstract drawings in a notebook, holding three different pencils in his left hand, a frozen lolly in his right. Nia stopped at the locked gate of every house they passed and pointed in, saying “Do they have children in that house? Do you think any children live in there?”

And at home, hearing children’s voices from the garden next door, Mikey crouched down on his hunkers and called through the gap in the hedge. “Children! Children! Come and play! Look! See! I’ve got pencils.” And he set the very pencils down on the hardened earth below the hedge like an offering to the Gods of Friendship. 

 

It was as if the children knew a tangible relationship such as friendship was the only way to prove that they existed. But no reply came from behind the locked gates, nor through the glossy leaves of the suburban privet. They might have been the otherworldly family, Olive, Nia and Mikey, from a ghost film, going about their lives on one side of a wall, unseen and unknown, on the other side of which lived The Others.

 

 

My debut novella, Source, won the New Fictions Prize in 2020 and was published by Story Machines in 2021. I have completed a debut novel, The Children of Angels’ Eyrie, about a century of conflict as seen through the eyes of two families who live in the same house in Yorkshire, 100 years apart. My short story collection, Dismantling the Catapult, is nearing completion. I am the editor of The Vixen, a magazine of art and lit based in Harrogate, North Yorkshire, where I live with my family.